View source for Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/November 2010

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==November 30==
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====[[Car of the Year]] 2011====
:''[[Nissan Leaf]] is chosen as 2011 Car of the Year.''[http://www.caroftheyear.org/winner/2011_52/coty][http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wear-11867561 BBC].
[[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 16:26, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:There are many different 'car of the year' awards, as our [[Car of the Year|article]] makes clear. Is this the most significant of them? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:44, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''' if and only if its the most significant award, as we don't post that many business stories, but otherwise it isn't important enough for consideration IMO. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 19:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::i can understand posting a human who designed something innovative for the car. but posting a car... whats next, comfiest sofa of the year? i dont know it doesnt sound like ITN material -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 20:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' This seems to be the [[European Car of the Year]]. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 20:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:I thought we were waiting for a Nissan Leaf posting until it went on official sale?. It's in the archive somewhere. [[User:MickMacNee|MickMacNee]] ([[User talk:MickMacNee|talk]]) 21:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:*'''Support''' - What is different here is that ''this is the first time an electric car'' was nominated and won this award. No car award will be considered "the most significant," but it is a major award.  Notable, interesting and historic. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   21:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''. As stated in a [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/November 2010#Nissan Leaf|previous nomination]], the best thing to do would probably be to wait for it to release, and then post a blurb announcing the release of the first mass-produced electric car by a major manufacturer. Unless ITN would want to re-post when that happens. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 22:11, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
** I agree with Eric. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 20:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

====Motorcyclists attack scientists====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11860928 BBC] - Two separate attacks: One nuclear scientist is killed and his wife is injured, while another is wounded. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 04:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 29==
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====[[Bella Akhmadulina]] dies====
* Widely acclaimed Russian poetess '''[[Bella Akhmadulina]]''' dies at 73.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 22:44, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''': yesterday, editors only considered her worthy of a 19 sentence article. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 22:58, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: This should not be a default reason for oppose, we've had cases when the article was in a bad shape but quickly expanded afterwards and was thus appropriate for ITN. No particular opinion otherwise, in this case. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 23:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The article seems to be in a good shape, and I don't see any serious problem there.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 23:13, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. She was as famous as [[Andrey Voznesensky]], whose death was featured on the ITN. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 23:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. Unfortunately not every article receives the attention it deserves unless something such as death occurs and then it receives attention. Akhmadulina, as GreyHood has said, was as well-known as Voznesensky and appeared in packed stadiums too. Voznesensky was also several years older when he died and was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&diff=next&oldid=365726283 posted]. Dmitry Medvedev and Vladimir Putin have both [http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=12267284 paid tribute] and Medevedev has written on his blog that Akhmadulina's poetry is a "classic of Russian literature". She was given numerous awards and received high praise from 1987 Nobel Prize recipient [[Joseph Brodsky]]. She appears then to pass <code> 2. "The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such." </code> --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 00:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' KevinMcE's point is quite reasonable - if no-one could be bothered writing a comprehensive article on the subject while she was alive, it's a fairly good indication that she wasn't all that important. Anyway, I judge deaths on whether the ''death'' was notable, which usually involves weighing the following factors: (a) the person's age; (b) the extent to which the person was active in their field at the time of their death; (c) whether the death was in unexpected circumstances; (d) the impact of the death on current events; and (e) the importance of the person. (a) through (d) say quite strongly this isn't important so I don't think we should post it.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 02:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::But why should anyone be "bothered" to write comprehensive articles on everything that is important especially while alive? For example, the article on [[Mikhail Lermontov]], a poet she has been compared to, is not in a good state (and he has been dead for some time) but surely his importance is not decreased because of this? Surely what matters is the current state of the article (which is better than when the nomination was made)? --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:05, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The current state of the article matters in deciding whether it is fit for posting. But the former state of the article is a useful reference for deciding whether the subject was that important: for important people, you expect comprehensive articles in good shape. It's only an indicative factor and care needs to be taken in applying it, but taking it into account is not illegitimate.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 06:13, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It matters because if no-one "is bothered" to write articles Wikipedia does not exist!  If the individual were of great interest to Wiki readership there would at least be many comments in the talk page seeking expansion of the article, even if there were few editors qualified to expand it.  Comments in an obituary, and even more so testimonials from public figures and erstwhile colleagues, will generally be glowing and tend toward exaggeration of the importance and merits of the deceased: we've all been to enough funerals to know that, so they are not the best yardstick of impact. We have established in the past that simply being a nobel prize winner does not make one ITNworthy on death: having had a laureate compliment one even less so.[[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 08:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Plase, take a look at the article about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrei_Voznesensky&oldid=347927210 Andrei Voznesensky] before his dead. Based on your criterion, he wasn't also notable, but his death was mentioned in the ITN template. So, please note another criterion, rather than technically eliminating the nominations.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 08:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per those above. [[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#030">'''''Wizardman'''''</span>]] <sub>[[User:Wizardman/Operation Big Bear|<span style="color:#600">Operation Big Bear</span>]]</sub> 04:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/world/europe/30akhmadulina.html ''The New York Times''] now has an obituary stating that she was "always recognized as one of the Soviet Union's literary treasures and a classic poet in the long line extending from [[Mikhail Lermontov|Lermontov]] and [[Alexander Pushkin|Pushkin]]" and "one of the great poets of the 20th century". --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per the aboves.  And Candlewick, for the 1000th time, nobody gives a shit about what this or that obituary says. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  07:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Eh, was that necessary? Obituaries aren't written for every death, especially by the New York Times, and as such they're usually a good indication the person was pretty important. [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#000066;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 13:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The quote from a 1993 book calling her "one of the great poets of the 20th century" does not date from after the death. Not sure what to say to the choice of words above... :( --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 16:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::While I have no desire to defend DC's tone, you did present it as a quote from an obituary, not a 17 year old book.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 16:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::But it is mentioned in that newspaper. Surely these are read before deciding on supports and opposes? --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 17:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Can't vouch for anyone else, but I don't feel a need to.  If the fame of the person is not such that I would imagine any reasonably well informed person knows of them, or their acheivement is not so unique that it deserves higher profile, I for one will oppose posting the mere fact of death at ITN.  I suspect I am not alone...  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 17:41, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::But that means someone would have to be famous? No matter how important the achievement? --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 17:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Read what I said:"''or their acheivement is not so unique that it deserves higher profile''": but yes, unless the circumstances of the death are extraordinary, the newsworthiness of a person's death is pretty much proportional to their fame.  I'm not talking about the importance of the person, but the newsworthiness of their passing.  The only real exception to that would be the death of the last person of a notable category (eg last WWI veteran). [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 20:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' Lol. This discussion becomes more and more meaningless. I wonder how could you compare the previous shape of the article with the notability of the person. If you see it in bad shape, just fix it. It's clearly stated she was "one of the greatest poets of the 20th century".--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 08:04, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Comment''' All the opposes here are based on the issue that the subject's article was too short before her death.  It's a valid point, but I don't think it should be prohibitive.  For heaven's sake, we all know that article length on Wikipedia doesn't equate to notability.  Otherwise we would consider [[Star Wars]] to be more notable than [[Chinese Art]].  If the article can be brought up to an appropriate state now, and if notability can be established (I'm undecided on both counts) it should be considered.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::That is a misrepresentation: the state of the article is being taken as an indicator of the importance that the Wikipedia community (those for whom we maintain ITN) attributes to the person.  It borders on the hypocritical to suddenly argue the importance of a person whose article has been in a state of neglect for a long time. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 20:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Yes, but we should take into account [[Wikipedia:Systemic_bias]], which likely is having an effect here.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 04:15, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
:That's just what I meant. Articles on topics that are famous or popular might be in an excellent state because there are many who want to work on them. But there may be, for example, a scientist who has achieved something but who is at the same time not such a celebrity. Just look at the [[Robert G. Edwards]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_G._Edwards&diff=next&oldid=388631760 article] as he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. Using the same logic such a person would not be posted if he died now because his article might not have been long enough before he did. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 17:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::But considering the fact that several people who are notable in terms of Wikipedia inclusion die every day, the state of their article at the time of death is a fair indication of how much interest our readers and editors have in any one of them, and the degree of interest is presumably an indicator of whether their death is ITNworthy.  I suspect that among yesterdays death, at least [[Mario Monicelli|him]] and [[Maurice Wilkes|him]] are at least equally deserving and impressive in their CVs, and have more substantive articles, and in terms merely of popular interest, [[El Hijo de Cien Caras|this guy]] probably trumps them all.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 16:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:"All opposes are..."? Not sure about this (see for example my oppose). --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:13, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' significant Russion poet. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' I'm afraid I've never heard of the guy - and while Chinese art is probably more important than Star Wars I'm sure its article is more than 19 sentences long. Additionally given the NYT has multiple obituaries a day having one there can't mean its good enough to be posted here. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 19:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

====The ''[[Leslie Nielsen|Naked Gun]]'' actor dies====
[[File:Leslie Nielsen.jpg|right|100x100px]]
[[File:LeslieNielsenOct08-replacement.jpg|right|100x100px]]
[[File:Leslie Nielsen headshot1.jpg|right|100x100px]]
Leslie Nielsen dies at age 84. - <font face="verdana">[[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#E32636">'''Eugεn'''</span>]][[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#333399">'''S¡m¡on'''</span>]][[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#C90016">(14) ®</span>]]</font> 08:02, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' A notable person, but at the age of 84, his death is not a significant event. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 08:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
: News all over the world [http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/comedy-legend-leslie-nielsen-dead-aged-84/story-e6frfmvr-1225962714792 Australia] [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11860014 BBC third top news story],  [http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/29/obit.leslie.nielsen/index.html?iref=allsearch CNN] front page in Yahoo. One of the world's most famous comedy actors, we had similar people in ITN '''Support''' [[User:Secret|Secret]] <sup>[[User talk:Secret|account]]</sup> 13:15, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Obviously notable person, but this news isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things. Don't get me wrong, this news hurts. It may not hurt as much as jumping on a bicycle without a saddle, but it hurts. '''[[User:Lugnuts|<span style="color:#002bb8;">Lugnuts</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 13:28, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Death was not untimely and significance of person is not exceptionally outstanding.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 15:51, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' One of the most recognizable comedy actors, notable enough. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 15:59, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Strong Support'''- per above AND was really notable. Has media coverage. - [[User:The Amazzing Race|The Amazzing Race]] ([[User talk:The Amazzing Race|talk]]) 17:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Is receiving coverage worldwide, and a notable figure. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 17:15, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' getting lots of coverage.  [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  17:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Surely you can't be serious?! I am serious and don't call me Shirley''' [[User:Simply south|Simply south]] ([[User talk:Simply south|talk]]) 17:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
The update is too short at the moment.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:41, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:{{adminnote}} (ec) Would anybody care to expand [[Leslie Nielsen#Death]]? Some reaction and any more detail (if it's available) would be nice. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:43, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Support'''. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/film-obituaries/8168071/Leslie-Nielsen.html ''The Daily Telegraph''] - "Nielsen's willingness to clown allowed him to approach heights once inhabited by [[Buster Keaton]] and the [[Marx Brothers]]". [http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/nov/29/leslie-nielsen-obituary?intcmp=239 ''The Guardian''] - "Canadian actor whose reputation was transformed by his deadpan comic persona in ''Airplane!'' and the ''Naked Gun'' series". Originally a "stolid actor who specialised in authority figures" so he was a talented comic and serious actor. And [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/29/leslie-nielsen-newspaper_n_789191.html?ir=Media "Chilean Newspaper Dedicates Entire Front Page To Leslie Nielsen"] sounds important too. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:11, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:Support's fine but there needs to be a better update.  I've done a bit of searching but I can't find much that's notable enough to add to the article.  I would have thought that the death of a prominent Canadian might have gotten a comment from the Canadian PM--that would be a good thing to add.  But the reactions of a few relatively insignificant actors isn't really notable enough.  The Chilean front page did catch my eye, it sure goes to notability.  We might need to give this one time until we have some reactions worth adding.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:18, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I also tried to add detail, nothing but twitters from famous people etc, I think there is consensus to add this. [[User:Secret|Secret]] <sup>[[User talk:Secret|account]]</sup> 23:16, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, I'm '''neutral''' on this item, but spent half an hour hunting around for useful quotes or further info to add on his death. There's an absolute ton of coverage, but it's all obituaries, 'best moments', quotes from the man himself, or the banal 'he was funny' type reactions from middling comedians. It's probably as good as it's going to get, and is a GA, so I think this would be fine to post. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::The update seems to have got ''shorter'' since I last looked! But, if there's an agreement to post now (it is a GA I suppose), then I will as soon as someone can suggest a good blurb. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::How about "Occasionally prominent Canadian actor Leslie Nielsen dies at very old age to little reaction". But in all seriousness, why not the usual "Canadian-American actor '''[[Leslie Nielsen]]''' dies at the age of 84".--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:49, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't disagree with your point, but I'm just the humble servant of consensus. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Yes I'm certainly not going to argue there's not consensus. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 00:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::BTW, should we switch Julian's picture for Leslie's? My contempt for the former is just so extraordinarily high that I'd feel uncomfortable use the tools to do it myself.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 00:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::You shouldn't then ;) We usually try to keep images up for 24 hours at least, because we never know where a new usable image is going to come from: if we swap too early, we're left with images which stay on '''''far''''' too long (like [[Andry Rajoelina]] recently) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:16, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::I was going to do it at about 10am UTC. That would be about 24 hours. I agree with you (again!) on the former. To post my opinion of him would violate BLP, but we don't want Nielsen getting like [[:File:Fernando Lugo.jpg|ITN's standing joke]]! [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)   
:::::::I was about to post that Neilson's hair is a bit longer than usual.... [[:File:Leslie_Nielsen.jpg|this photo]] (or a headshot crop) would make a good front-pager when the time is right. -'''[[User:M.nelson|M.Nelson]]''' ([[User talk:M.nelson|talk]]) 01:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Yes, a cropped version of [[:File:Leslie Nielsen.jpg]] would be good after about 1000&nbsp;UTC. Apart from the practical aspects of having even fewer usable images than usable stories on ITN, it would be a huge breach of [[WP:NPOV]] to take down the image of Assange simply because some editors do not approve of it/him on personal, subjective grounds. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::No-one is proposing that. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 02:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::: :) then! I've just had several of these conversations in the past! One person complained on [[WP:ERRORS]] that it was "always the second entry that had the picture" so why didn't the current second entry have the picture... If I remember correctly, the second entry at the time was the death of [[J. D. Salinger]], so no free image was available even if it would have satisfied the user concerned! ;) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::Sorry we're probably crossing wires. I was clarifying that my objection to the picture was not related to my views on Assange. (Actually, I proposed switching the picture to Wikileaks/Assange in the first place over at [[T:MP]]). --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 02:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Seems like we're crossing wires, yes, that happens from time to time. For the moment, we have a nice image schedule: Assange &rarr; Nielson (if someone does the crop) &rarr; whoever wins the Ivoirien presidential election (we've got free images of both of them). Assuming nothing comes along to f*ck that up... which will happen, that is one of the joys of ITN ;) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::(general comment, not directed specifically at Physchim despite cack-handed threading) What's wrong with [[:File:LeslieNielsenOct08-replacement.jpg|the main infobox image]] of Nielsen? That could probably just be {{tl|c-uploaded}} without the need for any cropping. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  02:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)  
::::(redent) You can see the result at the top of the thread: a cropped version would be better IMHO. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::No, they're different images. I'm on about [[:File:LeslieNielsenOct08-replacement.jpg]] (added beneath t'other one at the top of the thread). [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  02:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Posted a crop above -'''[[User:M.nelson|M.Nelson]]''' ([[User talk:M.nelson|talk]]) 04:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]] 
:Belated '''support''': I grew up watching this guy. And I'm only in my twenties. An amazing actor. So what if he was in his eighties? What? Deaths are less notable if the person is old at the time? '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 00:41, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think so. If he died in a piano accident in 1990 there'd be a lot more attention.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 00:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If he died in a piano accident yesterday there would have been a lot more attention. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 01:04, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Post post support.''' Shirley not! [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#000066;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 01:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''More support''' and thank you for posting this. A very sad loss. Even at 84, he was not in fragile health and his death was unexpected and sudden. Time for a movie night. - '''[[User:Floydian|<span style="color:#5A5AC5;">ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ</span>]]'''&nbsp;[[User_talk:Floydian|<sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Floydian|<sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢</sub>]] 05:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm a bit concerned we posted this without the required update, despite the consensus that he was notable enough.  All front page sections have standards, and as I think [[User:Howard the Duck]] once said, ITN is the ''least'' stringent on content.  I do think it's nice to have a GA linked but the purpose of ITN is to link to articles that have been "substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest."  Now that it's been posted I think the best course of action is to try to improve the update, and I'll take that discussion to [[WP:ERRORS]] but I think we should bear this in mind.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:Off-topic: Now I do think OTD/SA is giving ITN a run for its money. It's a battle between those two. At least on ITN people agree upon on something. OTD/SA inclusions can be sneaky.  &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 12:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
*The more I think about this, the more I think this should not have been posted, for two very significant reasons.  a).  It does not meet ITN criteria.  ITN's criteria are rather vague, but for deaths the [[Wikipedia:In_the_news#Deaths]] criteria are reasonably specific, and I don't believe Neilson meets any of them.  Given that he didn't' win any acting awards or other significant recognition I can't see him meeting #2, ''a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such.''  I agree he is a popular actor, but in the past that hasn't been good enough.   HOwever, even if we concede that consensus trumped this issue, there's still b) The article did not meet the required update.  I've tried to update the article but there just don't seem to be reactions to his death that are notable enough to include in the article.  I think this is not unrelated to the issue of his notability I mentioned in point a).  We have always insisted that ITN postings meet a very basic minimum of an update and I don't know why Leslie Neilson's death was really notable enough to make an exception.  I am not suggesting we remove it as that is a can of worms but I hope that this precedent isn't followed.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

====[[98th Grey Cup]]====
* The [[Montreal Alouettes]] win '''[[98th Grey Cup]]''' by defeating the [[Saskatchewan Roughriders]] 21-18, becoming the first back to back champions in the [[Canadian Football League]] in 13 years. --[[User:Patar knight|Patar knight]] - <sup>[[User talk:Patar knight|chat]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Patar knight|contributions]]</sub> 03:17, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
[http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/article/898215--alouettes-win-grey-cup-for-2nd-straight-year?bn=1]
:'''Comment''' – we don't normally post the score in sports blurbs. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 04:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*It's ITN/R and we posted the Australian Football and rugby league finals. The article could use more prose, perhaps about the build-up and aftermath of the final. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 05:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Weak Support''' - It could be quite good post. The scores are not needed here but some of the information is sufficiently significant. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 05:35, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::Move the sport to the front of the blurb: if it happened 13 years ago it is not a particularly historic acheivement, so drop that part. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:There's only a line and a half about the actual event, so this needs some work. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I'm going to say '''Oppose''' while the article is in its current state.  There's very little prose text at all.  There should be more than just a minimum update on the game.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' if the article is improved since the Superbowl and others are usually posted. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:In principle it should go up per ITNR, but the article needs some actual prose first. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:47, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support upon expansion'''. Notable sporting event. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 02:01, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
:'''Note:''' Article looks ready now. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 13:54, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
::Sort of. There's still no prose about the actual game, just a set of statistics and 'match facts', plus a description of the half-time show. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 14:10, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
==November 28==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 28]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 28}}
{{cob}}
----
====Irish bailout==== 
Continuing economic crisis for Europe and the Euro. Front page news on the New York Times and Huffington Post.  Not sure where the anchor article is yet, so putting this up for discussion. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   00:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' This was on until less than [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&oldid=399098332 24 hours ago]. No need to repost. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 00:36, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' as per Grsz11. Has already been on this week. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 00:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' as above. This is just another step along the way. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:53, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' - as per all above.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 18:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 ATP World Tour Finals]]====
* [[Roger Federer]] '''[[2010 ATP World Tour Finals|defeats]]''' [[Rafael Nadal]] to win the [[ATP World Tour Finals]] for the fifth time, tying with [[Ivan Lendl]] and [[Pete Sampras]] as the most successful player to do so.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 23:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Mostly because of the fifth win, which ties the record of most wins on the such tournament.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 23:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per nominator. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 23:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak oppose''', as we already feature quite a lot of tennis on ITN. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:23, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Conditional oppose''' On principle, this isn't as significant as the four grand slams and four times a year is enough tennis. On the other hand, the article looks to have potential: if the day-by-day summary could be fully sourced I would consider supporting on the basis of a high quality article.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:30, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. The majors are enough tennis, and there's nothing particularly significant about this particular event. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Not a major, not even a very stably established competition, not a record, but only a share in one, in only 23 years this fifth win has been acheived 3 times.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:39, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Haitian general election, 2010]]====
Haiti is electing its senators, parliament and its president. Pretty significant considering what this country's gone through recently—hurricanes, earthquakes, epidemics... The article could use some work though. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 03:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' only when results come in per [[WP:ITN/R]]. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 03:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:ITNR, but the article is a mess (plus needs results). Any idea when the results are due to be announced? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Apparently ballot stuffing and other types of vote corruption is going on, with 12 candidates wanting to cancel the election. So some are saying that results will only surface within weeks. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 22:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11856118 BBC] - Thousands of people have protested. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:39, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Ivorian presidential election, 2010]]====
[[File:IC Gbagbo Motta eng 195.jpg|right|100px]]
[[File:Alassane Ouattara.jpg|right|100px]]
Elections marred by violence and controversy. Nothing unusual for this part of the world, but these are the first elections since [[Ivorian Civil War|the civil war]], and are under close scrutiny at the moment, from both the AU and the UNSC. The UN peace-keeping mission [[UNOCI]] is overseeing the election. It's amazing that they're even having them, in my opinion. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 03:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per above. Also note that the election is five years overdue. Outdated tag needs to be dealt with first, though. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 04:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:ITNR, so once the results are added and the prose updated it should go up. We also have freely-licensed images of both candidates. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Results expected sometime on Monday. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:33, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Have the results been announced yet? Nothing in the article atm. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 14:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
{{clear}}

===Karachi Cargo Plane Crash===
*A [[Russian]] [[Ilyushin IL-76]] cargo plane bound for [[Khartoum]], the Sundanese capital, crashed in a residential area of [[Karachi]], [[Pakistan]]'s biggest city, killing several people.[http://tribune.com.pk/story/82925/cargo-plane-crashes-in-karachi/] (''Tribune'') [[User:Taqi Haider|Taqi Haider]] ([[User talk:Taqi Haider|talk]]) 07:33, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Not a big plane crash by ITN standards. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 10:29, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Neutral''' I thought to nominate this, but got side-tracked since there is no article about the crash yet. I don't think big or small plane crashes could be measured only with its death toll.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 10:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
**[[Sun Way Flight 4412]] <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 11:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
** We have an article now. [[User:Taqi Haider|Taqi Haider]] ([[User talk:Taqi Haider|talk]]) 11:07, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Oppose''': Bus or train crashes that have similar tolls are, sadly, neither rare nor widely reported; plane crashes are not that uncommon either, so why would that one mode of transport raise the event to ITN profile?  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 13:18, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' low death toll and nothing special significant about the event. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 17:53, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 27==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 27]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 27}}
{{cob}}
---- 

====Mohamed Osman Mohamud====
An FBI sting operation prevents terrorist [[Mohamed Osman Mohamud]] from setting off a bomb in [[Portland, Oregon]]. [http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/11/27/us/AP-US-Portland-Car-Bomb-Plot.html?hp New York Times] [[User:Sclt1127|Sclt1127]] ([[User talk:Sclt1127|talk]]) 19:42, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' the bomb apparently was a fake, so the public was never in any real danger. I don't see how the FBI capturing a wannabee terrorist by doing most of the work is notable. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 20:12, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::The bomb was fake only because the FBI got involved and saved hundreds or even thousands of lives. Stopping incidents like these from killing people is notable. People will want to read about this and they will come here and search under his name. [[User:Sclt1127|Sclt1127]] ([[User talk:Sclt1127|talk]]) 20:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::[[Mohamed Osman Mohamud]] is currently nominated for deletion. Not the kind of article that normally goes up on the main page. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 21:02, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
'''oppose''' Had It been a real bomb and a Chance save maybe... Part of FBI sting with a fake bombs... No [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 20:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' We don't post bombings that kill dozens of people, this doesn't stand a [[WP:SNOW|snowball's chance]]. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 21:24, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

====Wikileaks of diplomatic communiqués==== 

US diplomacy is working hard to contain the anticipated damage from the release of about 3M confidential diplomatic communiques on [[Wikileaks]], some of which contain embarrassing personal details and assessments about other countries' top officials. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/us-envoys-forced-to-apologise-in-advance-as-wikileaks-release-looms-2144993.html][http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gZuyUbPj_TupkaqlkPS7ed5xnUcw?docId=51c85a7635254188a1370853e221ffa4] [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 03:57, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:If you know when they're going to be released, then I'm sure there are several governments who'd like to hear from you ;) until they're released, no. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 04:02, 27 November 2010 (UTC) 
::According to the media, they are going to be released on Sunday (tomorrow), but the US diplomacy is already containing the damage, and the media is full of news about it. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 04:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't see how we're going to post it on ITN simply on the basis on media rumours. It's been known for a long time that Wikileaks is in possession of this sort of material. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 04:32, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', until the material is released.  Let's not post "rumors".  [[User:Nakon|<font color="#C50">'''Nakon'''</font>]] 06:13, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose for Now''' Lets wait and see what they unleash. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak oppose''' The ITN template usually documents such releases by Wikileaks, but this time it doesn't seem to be anything significant, even if unleashed. Remember the last time, when releases of the Iraq War were unleashed.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 03:04, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, they're out now... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 18:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::What have they released? I mean, top secret intelligence reports might be significant, but if it's just the receipt for a Big Mac and fries, then it would be considerably less so! [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  19:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::It's a lot of highly sensitive classified cables re:diplomacy. Try the front page of the [[New York Times]] or your cable news where discussion is raging. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   19:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:*'''Support''' - Big story, highly current, of interest to readers around the world. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   18:33, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Quite significant. So far, among the cables is all sorts of revelations about US diplomatic strategy. The New York Times article is essential reading for anyone who doubts the significance. Also some more tabloid-interest stuff about the Saudi King having a crack at the Iraqi and Pakistani leaders.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 19:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
{{adminnote}}[[US diplomatic cables release]] could do with some expansion and proseification. Anybody care to suggest a blurb in the meantime? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  19:30, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*<code>The latest [[US diplomatic cables release]] of sensitve and secret documents by [[Wikileaks]] gives startling new information on [[United States]] [[diplomacy]], sparking widespread international reaction. </code> [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   19:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
**How about something a bit more sober and closer to what we used last time: A collection of more than 250,000 classified '''[[US diplomatic cables release|U.S. diplomatic cables]]''' is released by [[WikiLeaks]]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
***Much better, we can probably do without the commentary (startling). [[User:RxS|RxS]] ([[User talk:RxS|talk]]) 20:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
****Good blurb. I'm still concerned that the article is a little short on prose, but it probably meets our minimum standards, so I'm willing to post if the consensus is that it's satisfactory. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:46, 28 November 2010 (UTC) 
*****Well it's not full of copyvios and doesn't use too many crap sources so it's fine with me. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:48, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
******It meets the minimum standards, and it will probably get expanded when people have had the time to read and digest the information that's coming out. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*******Agree that article meets minimum standards.  I note ongoing work, also. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   21:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''; many times larger than previous leaks, which were themselves highly influential. [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 20:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''; documents contain significant revelations. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 20:45, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
How about this modified blurb then? I left in the international reaction part.
*<code>Over 250,000 classified  [[US diplomatic cables release|US diplomatic cables]] are released by [[Wikileaks]], to widespread international reaction. </code> [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   20:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::The "widespread international reaction" really goes without saying: we're not going to post a story "lots of secret documets released but nobody really gives a damn" ;) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I think it gives perspective but will bow to the consensus (if established) and the overview of the posting admin. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   21:07, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''', though the characteristics given to various world leaders in those documents are a joke. As if anybody expected anything else from the U.S. diplomacy. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:07, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

{{ec}} '''Support''' since the [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cable-leak-diplomacy-crisis United States] has been "catapulted into a worldwide diplomatic crisis". That does sound important enough. As does "Arab leaders are privately urging an air strike on Iran" and "US officials have been instructed to spy on the UN leadership". --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 21:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 26==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 26]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 26}}
{{cob}}
----
====[[Scottish football referee strike]]====

* This is due to affect games this weekend, barring an eleventh hour solution. This is getting in depth and international coverage, it is unprecedented certainly in Scotland, and maybe the world?, and has an international dimension due to UEFA referees being flown in to officiate domestic matches (and in one case, flying straight back out again). [[User:MickMacNee|MickMacNee]] ([[User talk:MickMacNee|talk]]) 22:39, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''': Pub quiz fodder.  The matches will still be played, the referees will make about the same proportion of correct/erroneous calls as Scottish ones would make, a couple of novel crowd chants might be heard, papers will publish some pathetic puns and casually racist comments, some additional costs will be incurred, Scottish refs will return a week later, managers and fans will continue to abuse them.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 23:42, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:<s>'''Oppose''', simply not consequential enough. So a few games got cancelled. There's still a full slate of Scottish Premiership fixtures</s> and I really don't see this as being of a big enough deal to feature on ITN. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 01:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::With Portuguese referees now withdrawing cover from two SPL games, I'm changing to '''wait'''. If top-flight games are affected then this would set a precedent in Europe and probably be worthy of posting. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 02:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' [[iff]] it goes ahead. Football is a Very Big Deal in Scotland, the UK and most of Europe and referee strikes are almost (if not completely?) unheard of. This has been big news all week and we have an excellent article on the fiasco. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:53, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''' because the article is excellent. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:32, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Suggested blurb''': "Fog in channel; continent cut off." [[User:Nutmegger|Nutmegger]] ([[User talk:Nutmegger|talk]]) 03:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>More like "Fog in [[Berwick upon Tweed|Berwick]], England isolated." But the article is rather good... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 04:05, 27 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
::'''Oppose'''.  The article looks good but I honestly question whether this article violates [[WP:NOTNEWS]], [[WP:GNG]], etc, and should be deleted, and even it it doesn't, whether there's justification for it to be that long.  A strike of Scottish referees, which isn't going to affect top-flight matches significantly, is barely notable.  Are we seriously suggesting that the resulting postponing of [[Annan Athletic]] vs  [[Brechin City F.C.|Brechin]] is enough impact to make this worth posting?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 14:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::It's more the unprecedented nature of a referee strike than the postponement of games as a result and the effects are only so minimal because I believe they've brought in referees from elsewhere to cover. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, I get that it is a novel event but we need to have some evidence of impact.  The postponement of completely non-notable matches (with due respect to fans of the affected clubs) isn't enough.  And is this really that big a deal outside Scotland?  In the [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/default.stm BBC Football] section the story is a minor headline far down the page.  A football-related story for ITN ought to at least be considered important enough to be a lead headline in the ''football'' section of a media site in the country where the story is from.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 20:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Also, if a referee's strike is 'unprecedented', we need a source confirming that.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 08:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::First time in over 100 years that a foreign referee has controlled a Scottish match,[http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/refereeing-controversies/1905-The-last-time-Scotland.6642346.jp] and strike action has only been threatened once (never carried out) in the past.[http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Background-Referee-strike.6635642.jp] I think you should also bear in mind that BBC Football and ITV Football will naturally focus on the English league, which has a far higher profile. Expecting the SPL to be the top story on a UK site would be somewhat similar to expecting the [[Canadian Football League|CFL]] to be the top ''football'' story on a North American site. It is the top sports story in [http://sport.scotsman.com/sport The Scotsman], the second story in the ''news'' page of [http://www.heraldscotland.com/news The (Glasgow) Herald], top story in the [http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ Daily Record].[[User:Jmorrison230582|Jmorrison230582]] ([[User talk:Jmorrison230582|talk]]) 09:24, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::As I type this, the strike is the top story on [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/default.stm BBC football], as [[Stewart Regan]] ([[Scottish Football Association|SFA]] chief executive) is reported to have said that [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9235676.stm he expects the referees to return to work next weekend]. [[User:Jmorrison230582|Jmorrison230582]] ([[User talk:Jmorrison230582|talk]]) 10:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Jmorrison. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 10:07, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', somehow, I still think this is not sooo big on the grand scale...--'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 11:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[The Pirate Bay Trial]]====
[[The Pirate Bay]] Appeal verdict is in and found guilty again.  Major case in the P2P online file-sharing world. [[User:JeremyWJ|JeremyWJ]] ([[User talk:JeremyWJ|talk]]) 20:35, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Major news in the world of computers and technology. International coverage. --[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 20:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' if this leads to the Pirate Bay shutting down. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 22:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Wait'''. Let's hold off until we know the consequences of this. If all we get is yet more delaying tactics then it really isn't all that big news. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 01:12, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:Did we post the result of the original trial? I'm inclined to think that was the major step, and that the appeal was always unlikely to succeed. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 11:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' on the basis that the first trial was posted. The verdict doesn't change anything, and TPB have always reiterated that the site won't shut down. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 20:40, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Kim Kwan-jin]] ====
[[Kim Kwan-jin]] becomes the new [[Ministry of National Defense (Republic of Korea)|Minister for Defense]] in [[South Korea]] replacing [[Kim Tae-Young (R.O.K. Army general)|Kim Tae-Young]] who resigned following the [[Shelling of Yeonpyeong]].[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', non-head of state change = not notable. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 15:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', we have enough politics on ITN as it is without posting ministerial level appointments. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 16:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. While there are exceptional circumstances here, those circumstances are already on ITN. Otherwise, changes of cabinet ministers happen all the time. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', pretty much per HJ. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 11:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

====Russian Duma condemns [[Katyn massacre]]====
Highly symbolic gesture by the lower house of the Russian legislature, the [[State Duma]], passing a bill officially condemning the [[Katyn massacre]] in 1940. According to the BBC, this is an effort made by the Duma to improve [[Poland–Russia relations]] ahead of a visit by President [[Dmitry Medvedev]]. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11845315 BBC]. Seems highly significant so '''support''' as nominator. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 13:40, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - I wonder if there is any link to the [[2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash]] back in April. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 14:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*<del><code>The Duma has declared that the "Katyn crime" in 1940 was ordered by the Soviet dictator and other Soviet officials</code>. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 14:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)</del>
**Well done, you've even managed to [[WP:Close paraphrasing|close paraphrase]] the BBC in your proposed ITN blurb.</sarcasm> This would be a pretty inappropriate blurb to use, for that reason. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 14:43, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
***Ha! Thanks </sarcastic [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/retort?rdfrom=Retort#Noun retort]>
*'''Support''' - Yes yes, a very significant happening. Perfect for ITN. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 14:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:hmm feels more of DYK -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 14:39, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'd be impressed if you could get a featured article as a DYK... [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 14:50, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::hmm didnt check it was featured. well i'll give it a '''weak oppose''' for the fact that its merely a symbolic gesture for something they should have done long ago and relations with Poland statement is crystal balling. if anything the results of the visit itself might be more important. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 15:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::How is it crystal balling? It's reported as a fact that it's related to the relations between the countries. Nothing predictive about that. BBC: <blockquote>The Duma said it hoped for "the beginning of a new stage in relations" with Poland "based on democratic values".</blockquote> [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 15:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' This is an interesting type of event, where political declaration in no way corresponds to real actions. Despite this statement, Russia is still unwilling to make open all the materials of investigation of the Katyn affair (or at least give Poland an access to them). Russia is also unwilling to pay any compensation demanded by the relatives of Polish officers. Given these facts, the improvement of Russia-Poland relations is too much of a crystal balling. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 15:17, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::No one said it would improve relations. All that's being said is that this ''aims'' to do so. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 15:25, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Below I've suggested another news item, where the source said that Russia and China aim to further improve their relations, but it was supported by real actions in that case. In the international news there are tons of good will declarations from many countries towards many other countries, and we can't post all of them. Only when the real actions support the declarations, there is a good reason to take that seriously. Russian declaration is a purely political and tactical step: not only Russia is unwilling to do any real action regarding the Katyn matter, but Russia also has declared recently that it is going to strip Poland of transit of Russian oil and gas, switching to the [[Nord Stream]], [[South Stream]] and [[Baltic Pipeline System II]]. So basically Russia plays against Poland in economy, does nothing substantial about Katyn, but makes good will declarations. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 15:50, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment'''. This is not a bill, this is just a declaration that has no any legal power to change anything. And this declaration was strongly opposed by the [[Communist Party of the Russian Federation]], the second largest party in the Russian Parliament. If this rather vain news item is endorsed for ITN, the details on the CPRF should be mentioned in the blurb. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 15:35, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - per Anirudh Emani.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Symbolic gestures of this nature matter a lot.  It should be said that there has been rapproachment between Russia and Poland on this issue for quite some time, and last year we nearly posted a reconciliatory gesture ahead of a meeting between the Russian and Polish presidents; this was, however, derailed by the Polish president's death. --[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - Besides my support earlier, i have to say this is more like DYK. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 17:03, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
**Uh, no it doesn't. Doesn't come close to qualifying for DYK, and this is a news item, not a trivia piece. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 17:07, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
***It is a declaration, more like a realization. How is it not DYK like. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 02:52, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
****Please check the DYK criteria: the article either had to created within the past 5 days, or expanded 5 times within the past 5 days.  Neither of these things have happened: the article on the massacre was created years ago. [[Special:Contributions/90.198.139.143|90.198.139.143]] ([[User talk:90.198.139.143|talk]]) 08:08, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' it is more important that Obama pardoning for CIA experiments in Guatemala in the 60's. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 17:49, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:*Why more important? The responsibility for Katyn has been already recognized in the early 1990s both by the USSR and then by Russia. Why the recognition of this responsibility by every successive government in Russia is more important than the first ever action by the U.S.? More to say, this is not the first such step by the current Russian government. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 18:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' This seems to be the first step of putting an end of the historical struggle between the two countries.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 17:51, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:*There were plenty of such "first steps" (remember the reaction on Polish President's air crash, and the similar reconciliatory steps taken by Russia before that event). So there is no any novelty in this action. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 18:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::I appreciate the actions taken by Russia, but on the other site, there is always rejection with extraordinary rudeness (note Komorowski's speech after the air crash). However, such explicit and politely bill would take the matter further in the relations.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 19:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC) 
*'''Posted'''. Nice to have an FA on ITN. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  19:33, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I have to repeat it: this is '''not a bill''', this is '''declaration''' or '''statement''' (see the BBC source). It has no legal power, and that's why there is no need to insert the word "officially". These errors should be fixed. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Is the salient point not that the Duma has acknowledged Soviet responsibility for the actions, rather than blaming it on the Nazis, rather than their condemnation of the act.  They condemned it before, but with the blame on another nation.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 20:39, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I've changed the blurb to shift the focus to Stalin and the SU's responsibility. This is the main point picked up by the major international news outlets. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:41, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:Soviet and Russian officials condemned it before and took responsibility before as well, for about 20 years it is not blamed on the Nazis. And now it looks in the ITN box like it has been done for the first time. Can anyone propose a more correct blurb? [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

::My understanding (from the BBC story and a couple others which I read) was that although past statements had acknowledged Soviet (not Nazi) responsibility for the Katyn massacre, this is the first time that the Russian government has specifically blamed it on Stalin and his associates (rather than on local officials who could no longer be identified).  [[User:Richwales|Richwales]] ([[User talk:Richwales|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Richwales|contribs]]) 21:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::In April 2010 Russia officially made public documents relating to the 1940 executions, signed by Stalin and other officials. De facto, those documents were publicly accessible several years before, including on Wikipedia. Russian news and various Russian politicians routinely condemn Stalin regarding Katyn, and in the same April 2010 Russian Prime Minister Putin was speaking in Poland about Stalin's responsibility. The only novelty in the recent move is that it was done by the Lower house of the Parliament now. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 22:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Bernard Matthews (person)|Bernard Matthews]] dies====
Turkey tycoon Bernard Matthews has died at the age of 80. ([http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-11845703 BBC]) - [[User:JuneGloom07|<font color="Purple" face="Arial">'''JuneGloom'''</font>]]  [[User_Talk:JuneGloom07|<font color="Green" face="Times New Roman">Schmooze </font>]] 12:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. If I have to go "who?", it's probably not notable enough. Never heard of him, just as the rest of the world probably hasn't, and I suspect even most Brits would not have heard of him. Notice how even the BBC categorised this as a Norfolk story, rather than as an England or UK story. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 13:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' most Brits will have heard of him, but it's still not universally notable for ITN. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 13:57, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I think much of Europe will know of his products, but I can see why it's getting opposition. It was still worth a nom imo. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' it is now a [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11846786 UK thing] on the Beeb, by the way. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 16:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Strong oppose''' - Wikipedia hasn't given much importance to him. See how small the article is. Too bad for ITN. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 14:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' too local to the UK. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:57, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Too late for Thanksgiving, too early for Christmas. '''[[User:Lugnuts|<span style="color:#002bb8;">Lugnuts</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 15:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Bootiful''' Lugnuts, bootiful... [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 16:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose''':: worth an obit in ''Poultry World'', no doubt, and influential in that industry, but although formerly recognisable to those subjected to his annoying ads, is no more notable of himself than any other entrepreneur who founded a company of similar size. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 18:40, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::At least it kept [[Jamie Oliver]] going for a bit with his anti-[[Turkey twizzler|twizzler]] campaign...! [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' the only reason it made the news is because he died on Thanks Giving, I saw several headlines declaring "turkey tycoon dies on thanksgiving" Irony is not criteria for ITN [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:57, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

====Zimbabwe court action====
[[Morgan Tsvangirai]], Prime Minister of Zimbabwe, has taken President [[Robert Mugabe]] to court over a failure to adhere to their power-sharing deal regarding appointing regional governors, with South Africa's [[Jacob Zuma]] due to mediate later today. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11844981 BBC]. Not sure what the article would be here, and personally, '''no opinion''' on whether or not to post, and rather just suggesting a potential story. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:It's certainly an interesting and unusual story (so ''prima facie'' ITN material in my eyes), but I do wonder where we're going to get an updated article with adequate background. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Tom DeLay]]==== 
*former [[United States House of Representatives]] [[Party leaders of the United States House of Representatives|Majority Leader]], convicted of [[money laundering]] and [[conspiracy]]
*'''Support''' as nominator.  This can be taken as a sign the USA is finally getting serious about political corruption; conviction is for felonies. <s>Also, a good strong story in light of no new ITN article in nearly 48 hours.</s>  The DeLay article has been updated in lede and a sub-section. <s>Suggest speedy action here.</s> [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   09:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment.''' Who's betting the discussion for this will be longer than the article per se? &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 09:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I'm wholly against any sort of "speedy action" just because the ITN timer is red. There are slow news periods and it's not exactly a problem if we don't get to updating ITN if there aren't any notable stories. '''Support''' this though, based on apparent past precedent with posting Blagojevich's impeachment for corruption. High-ranking political figure convicted of felony charges is worth posting. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. High-level political figure convicted of serious criminal offenses related to his political office. In other words, the ''Blagojevich'' criterion ;) Note that we posted the resignation of the [[Michael Martin, Baron Martin of Springburn|Michael Martin]], [[Speaker of the House of Commons (United Kingdom)|Speaker of the UK House of Commons]], in similar circumstances (although without the criminal charges), so this is not just a U.S. thing. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:03, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''', pretty much as per Physchim62.  Can we finally get a new pic on the template?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The article's in very good shape. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more detail on the convictions, but I can see that there's only so much that ''can'' be written, so I won't make an issue out of it if the consensus is in favour of posting. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:We should be careful to get the blurb right for this one before it goes up. How about: "'''[[Tom DeLay]]''', former [[Party leaders of the United States House of Representatives|Majority Leader]] of the [[United States House of Representatives]], is convicted of money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering."--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 19:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 20:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''''[[Tom DeLay]]''', former [[Republican Party|Republican]] [[Party leaders of the United States House of Representatives|Majority Leader]] of the [[United States House of Representatives]], is convicted of money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering.''
:That's a fine blurb, as I see it. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   20:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*Is this the best we can get? I would have thought that something like this would attract a lot more discussion. I'm not posting this without a decent consensus because you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be removed otherwise. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' - I confess to astonishment; firstly that I had to come out of semi-retirement here to nominate this one, and secondly that it has been so quiet.  I can only surmise that Americans are so caught up in the Thanksgiving holiday weekend here that they are not logging on.  Thanks for the poke, HJ, and I agree more !votes are needed. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   22:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::There are 5 supports. Why would it get removed if posted? [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 22:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I had not counted them up, as the supports are confusingly placed. Five with no opposes? Seems sufficent to me, unless standards have changed. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   22:43, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*Any administrator reading this? [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 07:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
*:Done. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 07:30, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
** '''Support''' per above. Clearly important. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 09:22, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:A comment: I don't see why anyone would expect massive controversy over this story, it's clearly of importance. '''Weak support''', just for the record. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 11:49, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Futile Weak oppose''' Mainly because he is out of office [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 16:02, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak Oppose''' The Michael Martin comparison is a bit of a moot point, seeing as we were only really reporting on a high-profile job loss, not the scandal. While this is kind of similar, he hasn't been in office for a long time now. I'd probably move to support this if the actual section about his conviction was much longer than a short paragraph. Very few people outside America know who he is, and what he has done. His article doesn't really go into it much, surprisingly. --'''[[User:Dorsal Axe|<span style="color:#32CD32">Dorsal</span>]]''' [[User talk:Dorsal Axe|<span style="color:#32CD32">Axe</span>]] 10:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

====China and Russia quit dollar====
Instead of the [[U.S. dollar]], [[People's Republic of China|China]] and [[Russia]] start using their [[national currency|national currencies]], the [[Chinese yuan]] and the [[Russian ruble]],  in [[China-Russia relations|bilateral trade]]. [http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11/24/content_11599087.htm China, Russia quit dollar] [[China Daily]]. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 02:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' as nominator. I'm not sure what's the article which is to be highlighted and updated, but the event is very important, and usually there are not enough economy news on the ITN, while we should expect more in this era of change. Perhaps the news should be inserted at least to the [[Chinese yuan]] and the [[Russian ruble]] articles. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 02:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:<s>'''Support''' once the appropriate updates have been made,  Big news [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 03:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
:<s>'''Support''' I'm not an economist, but two of the world's great powers deciding to trade with their own currencies sounds like important news. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 03:17, 26 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
:This is the kind of thing that certainly ''sounds'' like big news, but I perhaps need more convincing that it actually ''is''. It seems to be getting a big run in the Chinese state-controlled media and on Drudge. But I can't see that the serious financial news media doesn't seem to be running with it at all: eg WSJ and Financial Times. And that's where I'd look to for economic significance. Reading the Chinese news (and one has to take the Chinese news with a grain of salt), it's not so much about challenging the dollar but risk mitigation.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 03:29, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::Hmm Agree stiicken above, wait and see what tomorrow brings [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 03:37, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'd be very careful about using WSJ and Financial Times as the primary source for economic significance. Not only because these "serious" media largely overlooked the early development of the current world crisis, but because they are controlled by big American corporations that are behind the American state, in a very similar way to the control of Chinese media by the Chinese state. Everywhere those who have economical and political  power have also the power over the media, and naturally, Chinese news promote agenda that is important and positive for China, while WSJ and Financial Times tend to overlook many developments that are negative for the U. S. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 14:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I don't know how important it is when it's only about trade between China and Russia. A candidate for updating and highlighting is [[China–Russia relations]] but it only has three references currently. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 03:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::Obviously, it is an important news. Using their [[national currency|national currencies]] and kind of quitting the [[U.S. dollar]] is a significant event. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 03:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Are there any reliable sources supporting the assertion of significance?--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 04:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The China-Russia trade is around 0.3% of the global trade. I'm not saying it's unimportant but just wondering whether it's ITN worthy. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 04:29, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::After paying more attention, I change my vote to '''neutral'''. If this is only trade between the two countries it doesn't seem to be as notable as I thought. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 05:45, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::The headline 'China and Russia quit the dollar' sounds big, but it's in reality more limited than that, as they are not dropping use of the dollar in other areas it would seem.  Without evidence of reverberations elsewhere, it's probably not notable enough, though I'm surprised this hasn't made a bigger splash.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 05:51, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' pending some update in a relevant article. While 0.3% is a small amount of the World trade, I think that the name of the parties involved is what is important. If these two decide to quit the use of dollar, I am sure more countries will follow soon. Poor Obama having to pay for previous policies... [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 07:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*:Is there any basis for this prediction in reliable sources, or is it just original research? --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' not significant enough, also it's not "in the news" at the moment. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  07:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - but like Nergaal, it's all about which article gets updated. But I find this news quite significant. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   08:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*:You might find it significant, but do reliable financial news outlets? --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. This is a huge nail in the coffin of the US dollar as world reserve currency. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 09:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*:Is there any basis in reliable sources for this conclusion, or is it just original research? --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' inconsequential in world trade. 0.3%? Come on. US dollar is still the main currency used in world trade and I wouldn't support posting anything on this unless/until it no longer becomes the primary trading currency. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC) 
::'''Comment''' There is a growing political tendency against the use of the US Dollar as international trade currency. It was started by the likes of Iran, but if Russia, China and others follow, this would reduce the demand for the US Dollar both for trade and as a reserve currency, which would then have a long-lasting impact on the value of the dollar. Especially if China stops pegging it's currency to the USD. So this event may turn out to be very significant, although not in the short term. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 12:13, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' The news are not about the dollar alone, and posting such information only when the U.S. $ no longer becomes the primary trading currency would be a bit too late, and too much overlooking the present major developments in the world. As far as I see [http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2010-11/25/c_13622058.htm from here], the total amount of bilateral trade between Russia and China is expected to exceed 50 billion dollars in 2010, and the volume is further expected to grow significantly in the following years. The figure is comparable to the ITN-worthy EU/IMF bailout packages for Greece and Ireland (if taken into account that those loan packages are given over several years).
::Furthermore, China's and Russia's action is an invitation and a stimulus for many other neighbour countries to quit dollar in trade with Russia and China, for example for Belarus and Kazakhstan which are members of the [[Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia]], active since July of 2010. What we see now may turn out to be a start of the [[chain reaction]]. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 13:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::And both those arguments are based heavily on [[WP:CRYSTAL]] arguments: something which may or may not happen in the future. It's not our place to assume what will happen. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 13:31, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OK, I'll agree that the second of my arguments, though quite logical, still is [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. But not the first argument, since the figures are already known and sound enough. Anyway, we are discussing the current developments, and their significance is rather obvious. As Crnorizec said, there is a growing political tendency against the use of the US Dollar as international trade currency, and Russia's and China's recent action is a major manifestation of this tendency. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 14:06, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' It is huge because will surely affect the foreign trade, and is a change which  possibly replaces the historical worth and importance of the US dollar.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 17:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*:Is there any basis for this prediction in reliable sources, or is it just original research? --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Note''' The [[Chinese yuan]], the [[Russian ruble]] and the [[China-Russia relations]] have been updated. The [[China-Russia relations]] are now in the last link of the blurb. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Opppose''' I've seen nothing in any reliable financial sources to indicate that this is significant. Posting this on the original gut-feel research of a few ITN contributors would be a grave mistake.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:53, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::Chinese sources are not unreliable. They are not featured on unreliable sources lists, and I've already explained that the U.S. sources are not the best choice here. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::It also seems self-evident to me that real actions, like in this case, are more significant than declarations, like the recently posted Katyn declaration or the declarations made by NATO summit. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:07, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Our own article on the China Daily says "The paper largely reflects the foreign policy of the Communist Party." Doesn't sound like a reliable source on Chinese-Russian economic relations then. If we want to gauge the international significance of a financial news event, we should look to places like Bloomberg, the WSJ and the FT. None of them seem to give a scrap of coverage to this story. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, how about nasdaq.com http://community.nasdaq.com/News/2010-11/china-russia-open-up-nondollar-trading.aspx?storyid=46466 and Bloomberg covered it when the story first broke: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-08/china-russia-push-yuan-ruble-trading-to-diminish-dominance-of-u-s-dollar.html  [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   21:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::The Bloomberg article is from September - the fact that they haven't covered it now indicates that whatever has happened now isn't newsworthy. The NASDAQ article directly contradicts all the supports in this discussion by saying "This is not really a game changer in terms of the dollar’s role in either country’s foreign currency reserves". --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:50, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::What's wrong with the Communist Party? Bloomberg, the WSJ and the FT reflect the economic policy and views of Wall Street and the U.S. [[China Daily]] reflects the views and policies of The Communist Party of China. The event is very important for China, Russia and sorrounding countries, and they report it. Bloomberg, the WSJ and the FT don't report it because the news obviously may affect the current value of the U.S. dollar negatively. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm surprised this question even needs to be answered. The China Daily is ''not'' independent of the Chinese government. The WSJ, FT and other sources are completely independent. If you insist on a conspiracy theory that "Bloomberg, the WSJ and the FT don't report it because the news obviously may affect the current value of the U.S. dollar negatively" then there is really nothing more to be said here. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::NASDAQ's POV editorial opinion in the middle of a news article on this story should be disregarded. They are a mainstream source, and they covered the story, period.  As for Bloomberg, well, they ''did'' also cover this story, so your inital comment on not a "scrap" of coverage from them is now incorrect. With all due respect, I think sourcing is established. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   22:06, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::If it's your view that they're pumping POV into a news article, it's not much of a reliable source is it? There's no way we should be basing ITN postings on the combination of one out of date and not followed-up article in Bloomberg, a vague article by NASDAQ that says the event isn't significant, and a publication by a Chinese government-controlled news outlet. The sourcing is a long long way from establishing that this is in any way significant, let alone in an ITN sense. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 22:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::*One cannot be "completely independent" from those who hold political and economic power. The only difference between the U.S. and China is that in China much of the power is held by Communist party, while in the U.S. much of the power is held by private business. And everyone promotes its own agenda via the controlled media, this is obvious. For example, WSJ is controlled by [[Dow Jones & Company]], which is a division of [[News Corporation]], which in turn is controlled by [[Rupert Murdoch]]. And no conspiracy theories here, since there are no conspirators, everything is far too open. Independent press is a myth. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 22:34, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::*The fact that these news haven't made a bigger splash in the West may be surprising for those who read Chinese and Russian media, or for those who reside in China or Russia (like John Semlak above). I've suggested the reason how this fact is explained, and it is pretty simple and logical, no any conspiracy. But anyway, lets put the Western attitude aside: we have China and Russia, over 10% of the world economy, over 20% of the world population, 50 billion market of bilateral trade; their sources, including those in English, consider the event important; and Bloomberg and NASDAQ also seem to have covered the story, though naturally presenting it with their own POVs. I think that if the ITN aims into representing the global view of events and not one centered on the United States and the EU, we should pay more attention to the economic developments in other macroregions. And the economic value of the development is comparable to that of the European bailouts. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 22:34, 26 November 2010 (UTC) 
:'''Support''': per my comment above, as well as GreyHood and others. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 23:31, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Important event in international trade and financial market. Someone pointed out that Russia-China trade represents "only" 0.3% of world trade, but I don't think this is a good metric. Economy of Ireland is only 0.35% of the world economy; yet the current troubles in Ireland are a massive issue for the world financial markets and they are in the headlines everywhere. [[User:Offliner|Offliner]] ([[User talk:Offliner|talk]]) 12:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' - By my count it is now seven supports, three opposes. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   23:12, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''comment''' - this is not a poll -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 23:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes the supports are mostly OR. Because it is not a poll, the demonstrated lack of attention given to this story by reliable sources will carry the day over seven random editors who think in their own minds that this is important. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:24, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::The editors here just express their opinions on the possible consequences of these news, just as it happens with many other news items. This is not a discussion of an article and its sources, and no one goes to put onto the Main Page any OR-ish opinions on further developments regarding the world currencies. Everything is already in the given Chinese source, and more sources can be brought in if needed (the argumentation for supposed unreliability of Chinese sources certainly sounds as OR, if we take such a serious approach to the discussion of candidates). And there are enough established facts to consider the news important. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 00:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Also, the text added to the relevant articles is too close a paraphrase of the sources used. In parts it is almost word-for-word copying. I don't know what's worse: the copyright violation or the fact that the entire text - about a Chinese foreign policy matter - is sourced to a publication that "largely reflects the foreign policy of the Communist Party". Hmm. (see: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=China%E2%80%93Russia_relations&diff=prev&oldid=399255268], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_yuan&diff=prev&oldid=399255408] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_ruble&diff=prev&oldid=399255474]. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 02:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::The issue with paraphrasing was pretty minor (no any sentence fully paraphrased) and now has been fixed. You still haven't shown why there is any problem with the Communist Party and its official policy. And please, look again at the source - there is more reporting of solid facts than giving any POVs about them. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 13:52, 28 November 2010 (UTC)  
*'''Oppose'''--I originally thought this was going to be a shoe-in to be posted as the headline looks very significant.  However, the lack of reliable sources attesting to the impact is key here.  I agree with Mkativerata's concern about a story that relies on sources like the People's Daily.  And this doesn't consider the close paraphrasing.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 02:59, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:*[http://community.nasdaq.com/News/2010-11/china-russia-open-up-nondollar-trading.aspx?storyid=46466 NASDAQ], [http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-08/china-russia-push-yuan-ruble-trading-to-diminish-dollar-role.html Bloomberg] (September, when the news were anticipated), [http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aM5yt0yhEmm0 Bloomberg] (November, reporting the China Daily), [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-russia-to-drop-dollar-in-bilateral-trade-2010-11-23 MarketWatch], [http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2010-11/25/c_13622058_2.htm Xinhua], [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703326204575617432681497938.html WSJ] (November 16, anticipation of the news), [http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101121-705193.html WSJ] (announcement of the date). [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 13:52, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' - Greyhood's sources are reliable.  I am constrained by [[WP:ASG]] from further comment. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   17:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Jusdafax it's not just about reliability, it is about whether the reliable sources indicate that the event is significant and thus worthy of ITN posting. At the moment, the shallow nature of the coverage indicates that it being treated as little more than a routine financial development, if that. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 19:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Very well. You've budged from "not a scrap" to "shallow", so thanks for that. I have very strong feelings about this, and rather than belabor the point further, I will try to exit as gracefully as possible, with this final thought: Let's keep an eye on this for further developments.  If other countries join in the move to dump the US dollar as a trading or "reserve" currency, the  international implications are considerable. [[User:Jusdafax|Jusdafax]]   19:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' In fact, when I was suggesting this item, I had in mind primarily the implication of the event for China, Russia and sorrounding countries, not the fate of dollar - this was brought in mostly by other editors here, while myself I was even against the updating of the [[U.S. dollar]] article. The implication for China and Russia is too much obvious, it is a major step in bilateral relations, and I don't understand why this news item should be discarded because the event is not expected to significantly influence the U.S. dollar yet. Why so much [[amerocentrism]]? (unfortunately, this question is directed both to those who have voted oppose, and to some of the supporters) [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:59, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 25==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 25]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 25}}
{{cob}}
----

====Andromeda====

Let's face it, we need a new posting with a nice picture. Apparently, the [[Andromeda galaxy]] was formed out of a collision between two other galaxies billions of years ago.[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11833356] This new finding could have implications for the history of our galaxy (I assume all WP users are from the same galaxy). Doesn't seem massively significant but (a) it's encyclopaedic, (b) the article concerned is a GA so worth featuring, and (c) it has nice pictures to replace Mr Rajoelina. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:[http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010arXiv1010.0679H The paper]. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Comment''' The article looks pretty good, but there is only one sentence about the discovery. It also seems to be only a possibility, but not proven yet. However, I support such kind of discoveries, since its content is encyclopedic as mentioned. Hence, the report could be appropriate for the ITN template, but only if the section in the article would be expanded.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 21:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes and this is the tricky part! I wrote that one sentence and wasn't confident going further due to the scientific nature of the subject matter. Hopefully some experts will chip in. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:14, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:What we need for this sort of discovery is a link to the original paper. The BBC say it was published in ''Astrophysical Journal'', but I can't find it quickly. <small>This is one thing we do better that most mainstream media, actually providing links back.</small> We need a new story urgently, and the Tonga election won't get Mr Rajeolina off the template! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:34, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::If Tonga goes up, I'll probably use the country's coat of arms. It's colourful and I'm sick of that horrible, grainy photo. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' this isn't new news, is it? I could have sworn I read about this a couple months ago as if it had been known for years. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 21:38, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
*What ''is'' the discovery? I don't understand, but I just scraped a C in GCSE physics and that was a long time ago so I might not understand anyway! [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
*:The discovery - and bear in mind this is from a lawyer who barely understands the difference between astronomy and astrology - is that the galaxy was formed as a result of the collision of two galaxies some 9 million years ago.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 22:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::*Seems interesting, but I'll reserve judgement. I don't feel qualified to judge the significance. Where's Modest Genius when you need him? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:23, 25 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::Here. This news is, um, hardly surprising. But I'll have a read of the paper before judging. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::billion -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 22:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
well here's my 2 cents. all they really did was run a software simulation with eight million particles and collided 2 galaxies. what they got out of it was something that resembles andromeda. in reality this does not actually prove that the galaxy was formed due to collision of two galaxies. however, its a very good guess and probably as good as it will get. So is it a great find? ''not really''. Is it ITN worty? ''yes but only because we dont have anything better'' -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 22:39, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:OK, I'm going to '''weak oppose'''. The authors have conducted a good simulation of a major-merger, with parameters chosen to reproduce the large-scale properties of M31. What's new is that they have shown that a single major merger is capable of producing most of the features, rather than a series of minor mergers as previously supposed. However, this isn't really that surprising, and MOST large spiral galaxies are thought to have been formed through similar means. Furthermore, to quote the conclusion of the paper: 'we cannot claim to have determined the best major merger model of M31, although it is likely within the limits discussed below. We did not either try to investigate the whole parameter space to which the above results hold, although examination of Table 1 led us to suspect that it is likely large.' In other words, their model works, but does not exclude other models, and they expect that a wide variety of other models would also work. I'm only weak opposing, because the article is indeed rather good, there's a nice picture, and we need an update soonish (though I'm comfortable with 48 hours from time to time). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' this is more DYK or AOD than ITN topic. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 09:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::What's AOD? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 09:37, 26 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::Article of the day (provided the article is in good shape, and may be shown with a nice picture on the Main Page), but after checking regarding your question, I prefer [http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/AOD Art Of Dreaming]. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 11:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::Uuups! I meant: Today's featured article :S [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 12:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

====Police actions in Rio====
Not sure about this one, but armoured vehicles on the streets of Rio de Janeiro ([http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11838472 BBC News]) seems sufficiently unusual to see what other people think! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:23, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. It's basically strategic police deployment, with a few pretty big pieces of weaponry.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:21, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. I agree with [[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]]. Troops gathering on the streets, what kind of news is this?? --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 16:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::"Troops gathering on the streets" is a pretty rare event in urban areas. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 04:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Rio is a dangerous place. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:32, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Neutral'''. It's a remarkable deployment, and the Brazilian authorities seem to be intensifying their war on the crime gangs, which they may be winning from what I gleaned from the news earlier today. But do we have a relevant article to feature for this? __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 21:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think this event is notable in itself. However, if we had an article (or a section within a wider article) on the recent violence with relevant background rather than on this one operation, I would consider supporting. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:08, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Yep, with a good background article, this could be a good ITN story. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 16:10, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

====Flash flooding in [[Madurai]]====
Heavy rains in [[Madurai]] triggered a flash flooding that killed at-least 97 people and injured 8 more. According to the report, over 20 houses were also damaged by the flooding.[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/No-let-up-in-rain-deaths-toll-up-to-97/articleshow/6984342.cms] --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 13:05, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' deadly floods in this region are fairly common.  Less than 100 deaths doesn't make this unusual. I think an article would be AfDed quickly. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 17:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:You mean it is also useless for the current events. --[[Special:Contributions/203.217.145.174|203.217.145.174]] ([[User talk:203.217.145.174|talk]]) 05:40, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Andhra Pradesh]] Chief Minister resigns====
The chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, [[Konijeti Rosaiah]] submitted his resignation for the post to the governor of Andhra Pradesh, [[ESL Narasimhan]] on 24th Nov 2010. Later, [[Nallari Kiran Kumar Reddy]] was sworn in as the 18th chief minister of Andhra Pradesh. [http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article912729.ece?homepage=true (The Hindu)] --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 08:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:5th largest Indian state with 75 million people, India is also undercovered on WP:ITN, so '''Support'''. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:35, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' current proposal.  The [[Konijeti Rosaiah]] section has [http://www.newsofap.com/art-356-rosaiah--full-profile-biography.html copyvio].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 08:54, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''More here''' [http://bindasland.com/2010/11/24/rosaiah-ap-chief-minister-k-rosaiah-andhra-pradesh-cm-rosaiah-resigns-rosaiah-resigns-as-andhra-pradesh-chief-minister.html]--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 08:57, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Several sections of the article have copyvios.  Whatever the significance of the event (and I'm trying to get my head around that) there's no way article can be posted. I needs to be completely rewritten.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:14, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Yes, i agree. The article cant be posted now. But it should be posted as soon as possible. I removed some text while rewrote some more. However, more work is needed as the article should be improved in many ways. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 09:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Question:''' The resigned chief minister lasted for just over a year. What does that mean? &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 08:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Answer'''. Dont know where you found it. It means he was the chief minister of Andhra pradesh for just over an year. He was sworn in las year when YSR Reddy passed away in a plane crash. Then he was opposed continuously by YSJ Reddy(son of YSR Reddy). He resigned yesterday for personal reasons. So [[Nallari Kiran Kumar Reddy]] was sworn in last night. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 09:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Is it not a bit local though?? I don't think resignation of state-level officials are that notable. --[[User:Saqib Qayyum|Saqib Qayyum]] ([[User talk:Saqib Qayyum|talk]]) 09:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::A resignation might be more significant that the routine change of politician at the sub-national level (I'd hardly use the word 'local' here).  We posted [[Blagojevich]]'s <s>impeachment</s> removal, a Governor in the US.  The sources I've checked on this are unclear why he resigned so it's hard to say how notable it is.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:34, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::::We also covered Paterson becoming governor, see [[Wikipedia:ITN_archives/2008]]. --[[User:Soman|Soman]] ([[User talk:Soman|talk]]) 18:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The question is here is how often does a chief minister resign? A governor being [[Impeachment in the United States#State officials impeached|impeached and removed from office]] doesn't happen well too often. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 09:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)).
::::I think the reason he resigned could be considered.  Politicians about to be impeached or whatever the equivalent in other countries often resign before it happens.  However, in [http://www.dailypioneer.com/298820/Rosaiah-took-everyone-by-surprise.html this article] it says it is unknown why he resigned.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:45, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Some sources like the television coverage say he resigned because of personal reasons. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 09:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' sub-national politics story not of international (or even national in this case) significance. Opposing on both principle and on merit. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 12:19, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Even though, it is quite an important event right?? Things have passed so quickly. After the elections in 2009, two ministers have been replaced(YSR died in a plane crash, Rosaiah resigned). Most probably, it is the first time that two ministers have been replaced with the third one active in a period of five years(elections are held every five years). --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 13:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::That's certainly not normal, for today's events what we have is the Chief Minister resigning due to family reasons.  Which is unusual, for sure, though I'm not convinced is ITN material.  However, the much larger concern is the copyvios in the article.  There are still some there.  While there have been some positive steps to remove the violations, IMO an article that had as many problems as this article has had should not be posted quickly.  Earlier I found that nearly the whole article was copyvio, and btw one of the comments I posted above regarding this got deleted by another editor (see the page history).--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:57, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Well, it was myself [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Konijeti_Rosaiah&diff=398780353&oldid=398766607 deleting] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Konijeti_Rosaiah&diff=398781493&oldid=398780699 rewriting] the copyvios. I belive there are more. I agree it shouldn't be posted right now. Other users have also expressed their own views on why this article shouldn't be posted. I agree, sub-national politics is not a great news. But see if this event is of any use to ITN. If it is not, then another DYK like event, ''two ministers have been replaced with the third one active in a period of five years'' could be a significant post for the DYK. According to my knowledge, such an event never happened in Andhra Pradesh history. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 16:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Fifth largest? '''Oppose''' [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 17:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Even so if it was an independent nation it would be the 17th largest country in the world - between Egypt and Iran. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:47, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::And if it were, it could set its own defence and foreign policies and its leader would attend international conferences etc. As it is, he only has limited autonomy over his area. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:03, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' subnational entity. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  22:08, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Tongan general election, 2010]]====
An historic election for Tonga, in which the parliament will no longer be majority appointed by the King—instead to be divided between noblemen and popular representatives, both directly elected by their peers. It's the state's effective transition from mixed government to democracy.

Article is in decent shape (to my eyes), so it should be ready to post once the results are posted. Sources are at the link. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 17:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Support'''. Yes, a very important event. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 08:16, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

*<code>Voters in [[Tonga]] go to the polls for the nation's first '''[[Tongan general election, 2010|elections]]''' in which a majority of [[Legislative Assembly of Tonga|parliament]] is popularly elected.</code> '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 10:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

If a commoner, rather than a noble, is selected as Prime Minister, this might also be worth posting (or adding to the blurb), but we won't know who that is for at least a week. The election itself is what's most significant. Ready to post. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 11:03, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Support''' Seems significant. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 14:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
{{Adminnote}} The article is fairly thin on prose, but, more importantly, precedent is to post the results, not just the elections themselves. As far as I can see, we don't have results yet, but I'm willing to post when we do and they're added to the article. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  14:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:[[Australian Broadcasting Corporation|ABC]] has a [http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/25/3076801.htm?section=world correspondent in Tonga] who is suggesting that interim results should be available later today (UTC day). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:38, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Then it's watch and wait, I suppose. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  14:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Results are in, but there needs to be some formatting at the article... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Precedent is one thing, but it shouldn't be the rule. <u>In this particular case, the results aren't important</u>. Rather, it's the fact that this was the country's effective transition to representative democracy. Especially given the lack of party politics in Tonga, with the majority of candidates being independents, there's not really much one could mention in terms of results anyway. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 15:21, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' on its current status.  I agree that the prose is pretty thin.  It meets the minimum standard, but there's a lot of mundane stuff, and a long quote from the king. Plus at the end of the day it's a state of 100,000 people.  The political reform is a bit notable though.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:43, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Notability doesn't need to be discussed. National elections are on [[WP:ITN/R]]. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 15:50, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::::That's true but there's been some debate, and a weakening of consensus, lately about states this small being posted automatically as per ITNR.  In any case my primary concern is the state of the article.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:54, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Just for the record, ITN/R is ''descriptive'', not ''prescriptive'', so it's not a guarantee that an item will be posted. Notability debates aside, the article needs more prose before I can consider posting it. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Oppose''' If we aren't going to post the resignation of the chief minister of an Indian state with a population of 75 million, I don't really see how we can seriously consider posting the election of a country with a population nearly 1000x smaller. ''Especially'' when India doesn't exactly get its fair share of postings on WP:ITN. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That's not being posted because it's sub-national politics. How many times smaller than the Indian state are any of the G8? It's not about population size, it's about sovereignty{{mdash}}sub-national entities can't set foreign or defence policy, for example, whereas Tonga ''can'', though it's not exactly a major player on the world stage. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
I'm happy to accept that Andhra Pradesh is fairly clearly less important on the world state than a sovereign nation of equivalent size - such as the UK or Iran, but they surely must have as much weight on the world stage as a sovereign nature approximately 1/10th their size (Economically or in population terms), neither of which Tonga gets anywhere close to. 

Additionally given there are fairly large differences between the Indian states they fairly clearly have a fair amount of power. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 22:08, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:I would say not, because any international politics would be dealt with at a national level. The chief minister couldn't declare war any more than the governor of California could and that's a pretty big distinction. Big enough to post one over the other? I don't know. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Tonga can't declare war on anyone either. I doubt it even has an army.
::I've certainly heard of cases where Californian legislation on environmental protection has resulted in companies changing their products worldwide - so its not as if large sub-national states are powerless. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 22:29, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::English county councils aren't powerless. We have to draw the line somewhere. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:39, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Lemme put this way: If Tonga wins the Rugby World Cup it'll be on the Main Page. If they had an election, we'd compare them to Andhra Pradesh, which can't participate on the Cricket World Cup on their own, and to California which can't participate on the Olympics on their own. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 03:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', per ITNR. The results tables in the article are something of a data dump, and could do with a summary table (national percentage for each party, national turnout) and/or being split off to a subarticle. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:35, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''': ITN should have a different agenda, based on the widest possible world view, and not belittling nations on the grounds of population.  National level elections in all sovreign states is a part of this proud reputation.  The strength of ITN is its ability to bring to our attention the stories that are not widely featured in the mass media, and its willingness to give every corner of the world its share of the limelight. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::I very much doubt the mass media will be covering Indian state chief resignations either, and I'm sure the citizens of California regularly win Olympic gold medals. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 07:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::??? What on earth has that got to do with my support of an instance of a category of event that ITN has traditionally included.  Keep to the merits of the matter under discussion. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 08:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Its a reply to all of the above comments. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:17, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:While it's occasionally fun to read [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] regurgitating the same phrases of ignorance in every nomination with nations that he considers "unimportant" (''how's that list coming, buddy?''), discussions regarding the consensus to post items on [[WP:ITN/R]] should be kept at the talk page there—deliberately disrupting the nomination process is not a huge waste of other editors' time. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 11:39, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:More prose added. It's pretty substantial now, in my opinion. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I think this is more or less ready to post, I just don't have an idea of a blurb with all that info... Any suggestions? --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 15:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:07, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I apologise if my discussion here was inappropriate, I was attempting to compare it with the above entry as I felt people weren't being consistent in their views on both. In future if I want to raise this or similar issues I will do so in a more appropriate location. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:19, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

====Ashes====
The [[2010–11 Ashes series|latest series]] has gotten underway. I've nominated this to have some good news compared to all the deaths from the current ITN stories. I've added the blurb above about [[Peter Siddle]] taking a hat-trick on his birthday. '''[[User:Lugnuts|<span style="color:#002bb8;">Lugnuts</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 10:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' – '''wait for final result'''. We never post sports series when they start (less multi-sport events); for example World Series Game 1 wasn't posted. I have no issues with waiting for the final result to be posted as per [[WP:ITNR]] though. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:50, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::Even if it doesn't finish for nearly 2 months?  What about the Olympics or Commonwealth Games for example? '''[[User:Lugnuts|<span style="color:#002bb8;">Lugnuts</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 11:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes. We post the opening and closing ceremonies of the Olympics and the opening ceremony of the other Games, but this isn't on that level. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right - this is much more important! Oh well. '''[[User:Lugnuts|<span style="color:#002bb8;">Lugnuts</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 12:35, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::ROFL! [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 22:51, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 24==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 24]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 24}}
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====[[Pike River Mine disaster]]====
Police announce their conclusion that all 29 miners trapped after a mine explosion last week have died, following a second explosion today. The article needs a little bit more work but it doesn't seem far off the mark. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 05:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:I had been wondering if it would be difficult to decide when to post this, with the possibility that a hope for survivors would drag on for an in-determinant amount of time.  No problem here though.  '''Full support'''--plenty of coverage, significant in the use of robots (to try) to rescue the survivors.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 06:17, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - worst mining disaster in New Zealand for many, many years. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 06:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::Comment - New Zealand is not known for the large scale of its mining industry. But I take your point. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 07:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - worst New Zealand loss of life since Erebus, 1979. Significant coverage in international media. [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 06:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Worst mining disaster in NZ in 96 years! [[User:Calistemon|Calistemon]] ([[User talk:Calistemon|talk]]) 07:49, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - I find the fact that something of this magnitude happened in a first world nation to be rather surprising. When the miners simply became trapped, I thought this should have been posted regardless of whether or not it was bigger than what happened in Chile, but now that all the miners are presumed dead I believe this disaster is big enough for itn. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 08:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::comment- agree.  The April [[Upper Big Branch Mine disaster]] in the US was also featured ITN (29 also lost there so comparable).  [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 09:15, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Per above, but also the miners were not all from NZ, there was two Australians, a South African and two Scots to boot. --[[User Talk:Worm That Turned|<span style="text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;"><font color="black">'''''Worm'''''</font></span>]] 09:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' significant death tool and different (toxic) compared to Chile. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The Kiwi miners died, the Chileans did not.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/27.32.135.162|27.32.135.162]] ([[User talk:27.32.135.162|talk]]) 08:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

*'''Support''' - mining disaster of that type reminds me of the story of the impact of the [[1912 North Mount Lyell Disaster]] story - not good - and a heavy impact on small isolated mining communities and important to have in [[User:SatuSuro|Satu]][[User talk:SatuSuro|Suro]] 10:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' getting a lot of media attention outside NZ, article seems adequately updated. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 11:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
All 29 miners trapped in the '''[[Pike River Mine disaster]]''' are believed to be dead after a second explosion in the mine.

====Oracle vs. SAP verdict====
US District Court jury [[Oracle_Corporation#Oracle_and_SAP|ordered]] SAP to pay $1.3 Bn to Oracle Corp. for copyright infringement, the largest-ever for such case, and one of the 10 or 20 largest jury verdicts in U.S. legal history.[http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AL4IN20101124] [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 01:58, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''oppose''' sounds big to most of us, But when SAP AG  has a Revenue of 11 Billion a year and another 13 Billion in assets is not that big a deal.  Not to mention its going to be appealed and oracle will not get the money until that route has been exhausted [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 03:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::it doesn't just sound big, it actually is the biggest case of copyright infringement. and 1.3 bn out of 13bn is 10% of the company value, too much cash for any company, they can easily go broke for this. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 04:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Being one of the '10 to 20' top verdicts isn't that significant, especially as liability was admitted so it was just a barney over damages. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 03:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' per Mkativerata. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 08:03, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' It's the biggest, but what? The copyright infringement is not somethnig special, which should be documented in the ITN template, since there are plenty of the "biggest" or the "largest" things omitted.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 22:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 23==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 23]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 23}}
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====The Gambia – Iran relations====
The [[Republic of The Gambia]] '''[[The Gambia – Iran relations|severs relations]]''' with the [[Islamic Republic of Iran]]. -- '''[[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]])</sup> 23:46, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' countries sever diplomatic relations all the time. The real news here is that there is a country in Africa known as The Gambia. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 01:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::Err, that's a joke right? If so, it's not a very good one. Massive ignorance isn't cool. On the actual nom, what's more relevant is ''why'' they severed relations. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::Indeed, it was a joke. I guess you just have a shitty sense of himour. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 08:02, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It doesn't take a "shitty sense of humour" to realise that the joke is real poor taste. Also '''oppose''' on the basis that Gambian&mdash;Iranian relations are not exactly notable to begin with, but not strongly, as the reasoning behind it is well worth a look. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 04:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The Gambian foreign ministry has not provided a reason yet, but most sources suggest that the Iranian arms shipment prompted the decision. -- '''[[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]])</sup> 01:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>([[Help:Edit conflict|edit conflict]])</small> Countries ''suspend'' diplomatic relations on occasion (not "all the time", however), but they very rarely ''sever'' diplomatic and economic relations. The severing of relations is a rare (maybe a few times every year) and internationally significant event signifying either a extremely heightened state of tensions ''or'' a serious escalation in tensions between two states. As for the Republic of The Gambia ... well, it has been in existence for 40 years, so that's not really news anymore. -- '''[[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]])</sup> 01:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I think there are two issue working against this item: that The Gambia is so small and insignificant, and that Iran doesn't have much in the form of foreign relations anymore anyways. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 01:49, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm not voting in favour of inclusion in ITN, but don't assume that Iran is passive in foreign relations. Being ostracised by the West, Iran invests a lot of time and money in building relations with countries outside the main spheres of power. --[[User:Soman|Soman]] ([[User talk:Soman|talk]]) 02:11, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::{{ec}} The second paragraph of [[Foreign relations of The Gambia]] (if it is true) suggests that The Gambia is not "insignificant" at all, while [[Foreign relations of Iran]] states that Iran has "full diplomatic relations" with 99 countries. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 02:15, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::::<small>([[Help:Edit conflict|edit conflict]])</small> The Gambia ''is'' small, but I wouldn't say it is insignificant. It is quite active in international issues affecting West Africa and the Muslim world in general ([http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5459.htm#foreign source]). Iran's foreign relations have suffered, but mainly with the West—they are very much actively engaged with African and Asian states. For what it's worth, I'll mention also that The Gambia was one of the countries which had expressed support for Iran's nuclear program (the main cause of its recent ostracism by many states). -- '''[[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]])</sup> 02:17, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Based on the article [[The Gambia – Iran relations]], there doesn't seem to be anything significant about the countries' relationship prior to the severing, the only significant mentioning is that Gambia supported Iran's nuclear program.  In general the article has very very little on any substance of the relationship (a mention of $2bil to supply lorries to Gambia--hardly notable). On that basis I'd say '''oppose'''.   If the relationship is more notable than that, more info needs to be in the article. --[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 02:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::I agree on your last point. My understanding, based on a quick overview of online news sources, is that there is quite a bit more to the relationship than is currently stated. However, the article is new, so it is still missing a lot of information. I'll see if I can expand it some more. -- '''[[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]])</sup> 03:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Relationship between the nations was too small before the split. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 03:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

====Pope losing strength====
Pope Benedict XVI says he would resign if he could no longer carry on as leader of the Catholic church.<sup>[http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/11/23/pope-i-d-go-if-i-couldn-t-do-the-job-115875-22733408/ 1]</sup>
:'''Oppose''': I think that's what Mugabe said at one point. I'm not comparing the two, but this isn't anything of substance unless he actually resigns. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 07:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Oppose''' Renominate when resigniation has been done. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Oppose''' this is not an event, it is an opinion of the Pope, that should he ever feel misfit, he would resign. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 19:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. So what? I'm pretty sure ''most'' major leaders (including religious leaders) would, if questioned, say they would step down if they became unable to fulfil their roles. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:26, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:No definite indication that he intends to, "would", "could", etc. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 02:17, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

====North Korean shelling====
[[North Korea]] '''[[Shelling of Yeonpyeong|shells]]''' [[Yeonpyeong|Yeonpyeong Island]], prompting a military response by [[South Korea]].<sup>[http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/nkorea.skorea.military.fire/?hpt=T2 1]</sup> <span style="background:black;color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;'''''—&nbsp;'''''[[User:CMBJ|<span style="background:black;color:white">'''''C&nbsp;M&nbsp;B&nbsp;J'''''</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 07:42, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Another attack by the North on South Korea, following the [[ROKS Cheonan sinking]] in March this year. Obvious implications for the region. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 08:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Suport''' - There has not been a serious incident of shelling since the 80's at least, its made the markets go haywire and so has world wide effects.[[User:XavierGreen|XavierGreen]] ([[User talk:XavierGreen|talk]]) 08:23, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' per above. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:26, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. It does look serious, and both the international community and the news media seem to treat it as a major incident. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 08:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
: Posting. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 08:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Late Support''' unambiguous acts of war are a definite. This isnt even the normal saber rattling [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 13:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Late pile on support'''.   Worst incident in the region in decades.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 14:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 22==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 22]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 22}}
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====Irish call for elections====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11814283 Opposition parties have called for a general election].  Perhaps this bit could be added to the blurb on the ROI bailout?  I think it could stand to be reworded anyway (concerns over the wording were raised at [[WP:ERRORS]].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:20, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Calling for an election is quite a standard practice of opposition parties in parliamentary democracies without fixed terms, as a tactic to put pressure on the government. As I recall David Cameron was calling for an election all the way through Gordon Brown's Prime Ministership. So I don't think it's significant enough to post, even as an appendage to the already unwieldy Ireland blurb. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 19:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. There is slight precedent for posting the ''fall'' of a government in such circumstances (if my memory serves me), but not a simple call for elections. Cowen has given a statement saying that the Dáil will be dissolved in January (assuming he lasts that long as Taoiseach). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:32, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::The Irish PM has now called for a general election in January.  That's a bit more significant.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 20:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::But he's still pretending to be in control of the situation... If he were forced out before passing the budget (due for 7&nbsp;December), I would support. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Wait''', tending towards support. The government has essentially collapsed (Greens pulling out of the coalition), except that they've agreed to hold together just long enough to pass the new budget. We will of course post the election in January, but I'm not sure if/when we should post the collapse (now? when a vote of no confidence is held? when parliament is actually dissolved?). Might be best to wait a day and see what happens, given how quickly events moved today. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:54, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''' the financial bailout blurb should be updated with the intention of the government to resign. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 19:37, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Phnom Penh stampede|Cambodia stampede]]====
180 killed in a stampede in Cambodia. - <font face="verdana">[[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#E32636">'''Eugεn'''</span>]][[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#333399">'''S¡m¡on'''</span>]][[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#C90016">(14) ®</span>]]</font> 19:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
: I start [[2010 Phnom Penh stampede]] - <font face="verdana">[[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#E32636">'''Eugεn'''</span>]][[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#333399">'''S¡m¡on'''</span>]][[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#C90016">(14) ®</span>]]</font> 19:07, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::I was just coming to nominate this. ''[http://www.lavanguardia.es/sucesos/noticias/20101122/54073527809/cerca-de-200-muertos-en-una-estampida-en-la-capital-de-camboya.html El País]'' [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:18, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::<s>'''Support'''</s> when expanded.  Significant tragedy with a large death toll, and a bit different from the disasters that normally get featured on ITN.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::::'''Update''': horrible death toll '''+340 deaths''' - <font face="verdana">[[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#E32636">'''Eugεn'''</span>]][[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#333399">'''S¡m¡on'''</span>]][[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#C90016">(14) ®</span>]]</font> 19:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::wow, switching to '''strong support'''--that's a terrible and highly notable tragedy. --[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' significant death toll. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 19:47, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' a notable tragedy, especially during an event that is normally a celebration.  [[User:CoolMike|CoolMike]] ([[User talk:CoolMike|talk]]) 20:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::that article will not make it to ITN in current state. either this should be updated in some existing article or it needs to grow quite a bit. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 20:44, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::{{ec}} Obviously this is going to be posted but I don't think it will be feasible until sufficient news reports have come out of Cambodia allowing for a more detailed article to be built.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:44, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::For me, the big problem is the lack of background information. We have no article about the festival – it is obviously not the [[Water Festival]] described in that article – no description of the location, nothing apart from the news agency reports that everyone else is reading. For me, that's a big sign we should pass on this one. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 22:40, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''support''' article has improved enough to unleash IMHO [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 01:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Yeah, let's go for it''', it's hardly WP's best article but it's as good as we can do, for the moment, until more info becomes available. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:01, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''; have expanded, and 345 dead is significant enough. [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]])  02:00, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
: The festval article [[Bon Om Thook]] need still some clean-up and expansion. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:24, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Burkinabé presidential election, 2010]]====
Presidential election took place in Burkina Faso. The article needs updates, though. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 14:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Results expected "within five days" according to Bloomberg. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:18, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Like Tone said the article needs a bit of work.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:24, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Five days should be enough time to get a decent article together. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

====Jimmie Johnson====
In [[auto racing]], '''[[Jimmie Johnson]]''' [[2010 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series|wins]] his fifth consecutive [[NASCAR]] [[Sprint Cup Series]] championship. [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hrViNJJ9QmZrm841ot4GRHY5qz8A?docId=e13869da190945278dcb251bfc6f3376] [[User:Truthsort|Truthsort]] ([[User talk:Truthsort|talk]]) 01:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Though I don't think this will get much support, I'm inclined to do so. It is the second most-watched sport in the United States and races are broadcast in over 150 countries. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 01:42, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ha, nevermind me, it's on [[WP:ITN/R|Recurring events]]. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 01:44, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' it's not only on the ITNR, but more people pay attention to NASCAR than most sports we've put on ITN lately (including the [[World Series]] I believe). [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  01:47, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:The [[2010 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series|article on the 2010 series]] is nothing more than a big table, whilst [[Jimmie Johnson]] is very poorly referenced. There's a paragraph on 2010 in [[Jimmie Johnson]], but it just lists 'he won x races with y poles' etc, and is unreferenced. Go ahead and post per ITNR once there's a decent update, but the articles are not good enough at present. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 02:20, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::JJ's article is indeed not in a good shape. I've tagged with {{tl|BLPsources}} due to the chunks of unref'd text. The series article could work if someone wanted to spend a bit of time adding prose (and a few more refs wouldn't go amiss, either). [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  02:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::More people surely pay attention to [[Major League Baseball]] than [[NASCAR]], but yeah, Nascar is a big deal,<small> though I can't understand why.</small>  In general I think there are too many motor sports on ITNR (eight events), but deciding what to cut is tricky.  I'm sure many people would object to NASCAR because it only takes place in the US, but I agree with Grsz's reasoning above.  '''Oppose for now''' until there's an update; '''Neutral''' otherwise.  Frankly given NASCAR's supposed popularity I'm surprised a decent update doesn't come quicker.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 02:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Auto racing is the most over-represented sport on ITN, and NASCAR is one of the 8 that is of purely domestic interest. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 03:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Well if you want to go down that road, sport in general is over-represented on ITN! Playing Devil's advocate (I've no opinion here), one could argue that there's a much bigger difference between NASCAR and, say, F1, than there is between the various golf tournaments or horse races we post. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  03:14, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
: Auto-racing is slightly unusual in that people tend to place a number of quite different sports under one umbrella. I'm not sure that anyone would lump, Association, American, Gaelic, Aussie rules football, as well as both codes of Rugby, together in an argument that we over-represent 'football' for example. [[User:ReadingOldBoy|ReadingOldBoy]] ([[User talk:ReadingOldBoy|talk]]) 15:44, 22 November 2010 (UTC) 
::That's a good point. As a slight attempt to work against this, I'm going to split the ITNR entry into subsections for each type form of racing (that we post). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 18:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' despite ITN/R. I'd oppose this on the merits as well, but the articles are in shocking state. Johnson's article is just statistics from nascar's official site vomited on to the page as prose. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 03:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::I agree the article is a horrible read.  The prose simply lists his wins and other results.  In general the article is over-reliant on the NASCAR website for its sourcing and needs more diverse sources, such as articles from mainstream media or general sports media.  This is a common problem with sports stories.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:36, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Support'''. NASCAR is second only to football in terms of specators numbers in America, that's a persuasive enough fact for me to not be concerned with bias issues. I also agree with ReadingOldBoy on his grouping comment. [[User:MickMacNee|MickMacNee]] ([[User talk:MickMacNee|talk]]) 16:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Does anyone have a source on this "second most watched" factoid?  In the [[NASCAR]] article, the link given to support this is the article [[Major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada]] which doesn't mention NASCAR at all.  I believe it, actually, but I'm pretty sure it's based on a very narrow definition of 'most watched'.  I can't believe that more people watch NASCAR than [[major league baseball]] if we use raw attendance figures, and certainly overall tv viewership of NBA basketball would be higher than NASCAR.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::[[List of attendance figures at domestic professional sports leagues]] does not include motor sport events. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 03:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' unless a reference to "[[Poor and Stupid]]" is made :) [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 17:04, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Uh, I like the reference though, but is that a serious oppose?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' I hate NASCAR (even more than other motor sports) but it is a big deal to a decent number of Americans - and they make up half the audience. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 18:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:I'm still neutral overall but I'd like to repeat Mkativerata's point that the article, particularly where the update is, is very poorly written, as it just repeats results that would be better listed on a table.  The article should have more diverse information and context, drawn from a larger variety of sources rather than stat-pages.  NASCAR's status as an ITNR event should confirm that its notability has consensus, but that shouldn't prevent objections due to article quality.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
#'''Support''' as a record breaking event from a NASCAR fan, the Johnson article sucks though, but it could be improved by being on the main page. [[User:Secret|Secret]] <sup>[[User talk:Secret|account]]</sup> 21:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' on quality concerns. That article is not in shape to be linked from the Main Page. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 05:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 21==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 21]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 21}}
{{cob}}
----
====Ireland requests bailout====

The Irish government have accepted a £77bn (roughly US$123bn) bailout from the EU and the IMF. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8150137/Ireland-forced-to-take-EU-and-IMF-bail-out-package.html (''Telegraph'')]. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Support'''. But make sure to connect it to [[European Financial Stability Facility]], because that's where Ireland is getting the money from. —[[User:Bender235|bender235]] ([[User talk:Bender235|talk]]) 22:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC) 
::That article is tagged with {{tl|original research}} and {{tl|unreferenced-section}}. That would need serious work if it's to be the bolded article. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. HJ Mitchell, feel free to "take the glory" for this nomination, but it is also available on this page [[#Irish Financial Bailout|here]] and [[#Irish Banking Bailout|here]]... [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 22:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::"Glory" is all yours if you want it. I've got [[User:HJ Mitchell/Recognised|a few of these already]]! [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:55, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Obvious strong support'''. Where's the update going / what's the blurb? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''', major development for the Irish financial system. <code>"The [[Ireland|Irish]] government accepts a major [[2008–2010 Irish financial crisis#Bailout|'''bailout''']] from the [[European Financial Stability Facility]] in response to the [[Financial crisis of 2007–2010|global financial crisis]],"</code> perhaps? I don't want to include an exact figure, because I've seen a bunch of different numbers; the £77bn one isn't exact ("up to £77 billion," according to the Telegraph). [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 22:58, 21 November 2010 (UTC) 
::According to most sources, the exact terms of the package are not defined yet, with Irish PM saying that they will be negotiated within "the next few weeks". They have not signed a memorandum with EU and IMF either. So: 
<code>"The [[Ireland|Irish]] government requests a major [[2008–2010 Irish financial crisis#Bailout|'''bailout''']] from the [[European Financial Stability Facility]] in response to the [[Financial crisis of 2007–2010|global financial crisis]],"</code> would be more correct. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 23:04, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I'd remove "major" for NPOV, but, other than that, that seems a decent suggestion. [[2008–2010_Irish_financial_crisis#Bailout]] was in good shape when I got to it, but I've added just a little bit of info to it. I believe it's ready to post, but, since I technically nominated it, I'd prefer it if another admin were to do so. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Meh. Not a fan of either "requests" or "accepts," come to think of it, since "requests" is out of date if it's been agreed to, and no money has changed hands, so they haven't accepted anything...perhaps just saying "The [[Ireland|Irish]] government ''agrees to'' a major..." would be better? [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 23:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::That works. I'd still advise the exclusion of the word "major", though. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:21, 21 November 2010 (UTC) 
::::::Couldn't care less about that particular word. [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 23:39, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OK, but please keep HRH the Prince on the pic. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 23:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::'''Support''' per above. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:29, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'Government of Ireland', NOT 'Irish government' please, lets keep well clear of the whole Northern Ireland thing. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::Oh, blast, I'm a stupid American who's got not the slightest clue about that particular mess, so I really don't know what's best there. Someone smarter should use their discretion for that. [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 23:39, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Comment''' While you're at it, you should be linking to [[Republic of Ireland]], which is an article about the state, and not [[Ireland]], which is an article about the island itself. [[Special:Contributions/87.114.101.69|87.114.101.69]] ([[User talk:87.114.101.69|talk]]) 00:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' sinificant impact on economy. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 00:07, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::OK, can we agree on
<code><nowiki>{{*mp|November 21}}</nowiki> The [[Republic of Ireland]] government agrees to a '''[[2008–2010 Irish financial crisis#Bailout|bailout]]''' from the [[European Financial Stability Facility]] in response to the [[Financial crisis of 2007–2010|global financial crisis]].</code>
::?? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::And if we want to use the image, we can just slip in ''([[Taoiseach]], [[Brian Cowen]], pictured)''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::"The government of [[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]]" would read better than "The [[Republic of Ireland]] government". The important thing is to link to the correct article, not to write out "Republic of Ireland". There is an unsurprisingly lengthy article about the whole can of worms over at [[Names of the Irish state]]. [[Special:Contributions/87.114.101.69|87.114.101.69]] ([[User talk:87.114.101.69|talk]])  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 00:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::Indeed, but those unaware that it's a politically sensitive term might query why would write out "govt of Ireland" instead fo "Irish govt". [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm wary of saying "global financial crisis"; I'd prefer to say "its [[2008–2010 Irish banking crisis|banking crisis]]", except that the linked article is in a pretty poor state. Thoughts anyone? [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Posted''' with a slightly tweaked blurb. Ireland "agreeing" to the bailout misrepresents their true status as the begging party to the arrangement. I'll keep the GFC link in for now until any better suggestions can get consensus. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 00:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::on second thoughts i've gone with the suggestion to avoid the gfc link. Ireland is clearly fucked for more reasons than the gfc. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 00:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Bailout is a biased form not because it's entirely true but because it's obvious mainly outsiders use it. i.e. if the US or UK had to ever be bailed out by someone they would never, ever use this form to say it. (but they're the ones that mainly do now) --[[User:Leladax|Leladax]] ([[User talk:Leladax|talk]]) 00:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:There's a difference between (understandable) Irish pride and bias. This, I think, is the former, not the latter. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::If people prefer, we could use (financial) "aid" or "rescue package", with the authority of the ''[http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1122/1224283834841.html Irish Times]'' behind us. I'm neutral on the matter. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:02, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'Rescue package' sounds good, but lacks the implication of finance (it could be a box with food and a tent in it). 'financial rescue package'? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:05, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::::So changed. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Also causes problems, but can we discuss them on [[WP:ERRORS]] instead? This discussion is starting to get quite long. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:21, 22 November 2010 (UTC) 
::::::The Eurozone countries HAVE NOT agreed to the package, as a matter of fact. Ireland has applied for one, the details and agreement remain to be seen in the forthcoming weeks, after which an approval by the IMF, EU Commission, EU Council, and each member state are due. The blurb should be corrected. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 07:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Transportation Security Administration|TSA]] Threatens passengers====
TSA officers have threatened passengers who protest the new pat-downs. The agency can fine passengers up to $10,000 for behaving in a manner that is so uncooperative and disruptive that it physically interferes with the screening process, according to the agency.<sup>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/18/AR2010111806188.html 1]</sup> --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''': Uh... this is notable news how exactly? {{small|Not to mention that that's a horribly biased and leading heading.}} Seriously, what one government agency decides on laws within their own country is nowhere near of enough interest for ITN. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:00, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' So you get in trouble if you misbehave while going through airport security? Not really news. {{small|And that heading needs changing.}} <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 11:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. More lunacy in airport "security", yet another government agency deliberately throwing its weight around to prove that it can, nothing new here. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 11:33, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Question''': What's TSA? The article linked to is a dab page. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:08, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::I guess it's [[Transportation Security Administration]]. '''Oppose'''. Not notable. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm quite like to imagine that it was the scouts, or a bunch of Polish rockers, and the Taiwanese airport would fit the blurb well. Might be a misunderstanding of what the Tourettes sufferers were saying, and not a threat at all, or maybe the expatriate Thai (or technological) students have an axe to grind. It would be intriguingly out of character for the theosophists to get involved in such a thing. Maybe the Sally Army are simply being more insistent on people taking copies of the War Cry. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 12:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''', The Transportation Security Administration's pat down is horrible. A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. As reported by MSN on [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news this article]. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::That's gross. He should count himself pretty lucky, though. In the country I'm in at the moment, if you protest random additional screening you get 40 strikes of the cane across the behind. How's that for additional screening? '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:25, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::Personally, I don't doubt that it's specifically designed to be humiliating, to show the average citizen that the government has ''this much'' power over them. Unfortunately, it's not particularly unusual in that respect, especially in the field of airport "security". That's why I'm opposing – that it's not unusual enough. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 12:29, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::But is TSA not very violent. Even when that man was having troubles regarding his health. The TSA people didnot listen to him (as the news article said) and so did the man suffer. Now, if this is not suitable for ITN. Okay, i agree. But kindly see if any part of the article is or can be suitable to ITN. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 13:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Meh. The Yanks are paranoid about security and ordinary folk are the ones who suffer for it. That's nothing new. Perhaps if it discourages or prevents a potential attack, it's worth it, but there's no way to measure that. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:42, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Agree'''. Okay!! i will withdraw. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 14:19, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Malagasy constitutional referendum, 2010]]====
Madagascar held a referendum on a new constitution on the 17th, but result ("yes") has just come in yesterday. It "legitimises" the military junta (in power since 2009) as the government, and its leader Rajoelina as president, until elections take place next year.

Madagascar's three main opposition parties boycotted the referendum. And an attempted coup to overthrow the current coup took place over three days during the referendum. [http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/17/madagascar-referendum-political-crisis Guardian], [http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90855/7204099.html People Daily], [http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/11/19/madagascar-coup-attempt-as-referendum-takes-place/ Global Voices], [http://www.economist.com/blogs/baobab/2010/11/politics_madagascar Economist], [http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/madagascan-army-crushes-threeday-mutiny-20101121-1823r.html SMH]. 

It's on [[WP:ITN/R]], but the article needs work. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 05:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' when ready. Important referendum. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''', without prejudice to support or oppose: Technically, it's ''not'' on [[WP:ITNR]]. Referenda are not the same as elections. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 06:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''', the article is not very well written. According to the article, the referendum must have been held on November 17. When it is already on the past, the article still says it will be held on November 17. If im not very wrong. Some readers might get confused and assume it to be on November 17, ''2011''. Based on all this, i will '''Oppose for now'''. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 06:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Article looking much better now. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 11:56, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

*<code>Voters in [[Madagascar]] approve a new constitution in a '''[[Malagasy constitutional referendum, 2010|referendum]]''', which sees [[Andry Rajoelina]] remain as interim president.</code>
::The second part is valid, as referendum also dictated whether the incumbent president was to remain in power. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:04, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support'''. Decent article with all the background (dispite it's "controversy" section – can't people find another heading to put these election disputes under?) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 12:09, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''' per above. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 12:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::'''Support'''. I still dont understand why [[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] feels the article is not well written. All he can do is just run around Wikipedia sermonizing. He is a big trouble for ITN. --[[Special:Contributions/117.198.154.102|117.198.154.102]] ([[User talk:117.198.154.102|talk]]) 13:45, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Please comment on content, not the contributor and attmept to resolve any dispute with an editor on their talk page, not here. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:54, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Seconded, noting that the article underwent some [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malagasy_constitutional_referendum%2C_2010&action=historysubmit&diff=398040978&oldid=398035720 fairly major changes] between Anirudh's comments and it being posted. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:24, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:54, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:*This article is sourced very substantially to a Chinese Communist Party publication. That concerns me. I've posted to [[WP:RS/N]]. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::*I'm pulling this article. On further research, China and Madagascar have, over time, had close diplomatic relations. It is also well-known that China takes active diplomatic interest in the internal political affairs of its allies, especially in Africa. It is intolerable therefore that the bulk of an article about Madagascar's contentious constitutional future should be sourced to a Chinese Communist Party publication. To avoid embarrassment to the project, I'm removing it. It should only be restored if the sourcing is fixed or if there is consensus that the sourcing is not the problem I think it is.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 21:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I disagree with this action. I think it should have been discussed first at WP:ERRORS, but that's beside the point for the minute. I don't think the sourcing is a big enough deal to merit removal. There are 3 inline citation to Chinese publications, but ''The Guardian'', Reuters, the BBC, Al Jazeera, the ''Sydney Morning Herald'' and ''The Economist''. Even if the Chinese source were not considered to be of the utmost reliability, I hardly think they would lie. This is the 21st century, I don't think that's escaped the notice of even the Chinese government! [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It's more than three inline citations - each is used multiple times to the point that the article is substantially based on the Chinese sources. And it's not a matter of "lying" - bias is frequently presented in the choice of facts presented and the manner of their presentation. That's what makes articles that use the sources problematic - articles that rely substantially on the sources can be affected by the same bias even if the facts are correct. At the end of the day, it's just embarrassing to the project to have an article based substantially on a Chinese Communist Party source linked from the main page. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 22:25, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::FFS, it's a horrendous NPOV breach to pull the article on the basis of that! It has sources to the ''Peopole's Daily'' yes, but also multiple statements sourced to Al-Jazeera and ''The Economist''. Back up NOW, straight away, less of this silliness. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:02, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Tone down the rhetoric. It's about reliability and ensuring that the article is not POV because of the use of unreliable POV sourcing. I can understand the embarrassment of a number of experienced editors who supported putting this on the main page without checking the sources, but the answer is to fix the article not exacerbate the embarrassment. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Xinhua isn't generally that bad a source - so it hardly seems like a big deal that they are used here. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:07, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::"isn't generally that bad a source" is nowhere near good enough for the main page. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::There are plenty of other sources too. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::The POV is in saying that the source is POV without providing any further arguments; the abuse of admin powers is in taking down the story without any discussion. The article itself has many different sources, not just the "Chinese Communist Party" as you pretend. I will not tone down until the story goes back up, because until then it will be impossible to have a reasonable discussion without one side having pre-emppted the debate. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:09, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Unilateral action to remove links to inappropriate or even questionable articles from the main page is entirely appropriate. The degree to which the article is sourced to the People's Daily (yes it has other sources but the PD is the most used source) is unacceptabole. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::So 9 sourced points from People's Daily, vs. 11 from Al Jazeera, 6 for the Guardian and 5 for the Economist. The People's Daily isn't even the most used source. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::{{ec}} As far as I can see, the key facts, like the ones the blurb is/was based on are backed up by other sources. @Physchim, "admin abuse" is a strong term and not appropriate here. Discussion should have taken place ''before'' it was pulled, not after, but to call it an "abuse of admin powers" isn't helpful in gaining a consensus for its restoration. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:19, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::We can gain consensus ''once it's back up on the template''. Until then, we have a single admin pushing their PoV about the reliability of a source used almost entirely for factual statements. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
Especially as three editors have made a case that the People's Daily sourced stuff is acceptable. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:26, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:The tone of the ''[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90855/7204099.html People's Daily article]'' is very similar to the tone of the [http://www.economist.com/blogs/baobab/2010/11/politics_madagascar journalist blog post in ''The Economist''] covering the same story, and give identical or near-identical details on all the major points. So, I suppose that the communist conspiracy has reached ''[[The Economist]]'' now? [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well the Economist's logo ''has'' got a red background... -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:45, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:As consensus seems to be firmly in support of restoring the posting, I'm going to restore it (as I said I would), very reluctantly. Sadly this is a depressing continuance of the theme of the last few months - articles getting onto the main page in an inappropriate state. We've seen a long-time ITN contributor found out for rampant copyvios, many of which made the main page. We've then seen rampant plagiarism on DYK and even TFA. Now we have high-school level ignorance of the tenets of reliable sourcing. Oh well, rant over. I'll put it back.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 23:47, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::With respect (and sorry for continuing to beat a slightly dead horse) but Xinhua certainly meets Wikipedia's reliable source criteria (per [[WP:USEBYOTHERS]]) because it is regularly used as a source by the [http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=xinhua+site:bbc.co.uk BBC] and the [http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=xinhua+site:nytimes.com New York Times] - both of which are clearly reliable sources. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 07:58, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::That google search shows nothing - most of the articles don't rely on X at all. In any event the use of "according to Xinhua" is an indication of a very guarded reliance on it as a source. Its reports are reported as Xinhua's reports, the content is not re-reported as fact.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 08:01, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:So attributation is a bad thing? If they thought Xinhua was a bad source they'd say "according to Xinhua - the Chinese state news agency" or something. Most people otherwise wouldn't know who Xinhua is. Alternatively they'd go and do their own reporting. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:54, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

====Pope's condom comments====
Not sure about this one, but it seems to be being taken seriously by European media at least. [[Catholic Church and AIDS]] seems to be the article that needs updating. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support'''. It's not as notable as when the Church accepted evolution, but seeing that some are blaming Catholicism for the AIDS epidemic in Africa (i.e., due to the Church saying that contraception is a sin), I think this is worth a blurb. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 04:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/world/europe/21pope.html The New York Times'': "Pope Says Condoms to Stop AIDS ''May'' Be Acceptable"]. "The pope’s statement on condoms was extremely limited: he did not approve their use or suggest that the Roman Catholic Church was beginning to back away from its prohibition of birth control". [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2032433,00.html?xid=rss-mostpopular ''TIME''] - "Benedict's so-called condom concession was not a huge one". --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:18, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose'''. it is not a big matter. Just comments wouldn't be considered as top stories. Such news is not suitable for ITN. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 06:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I think it's a pretty big matter.   To a large portion of the Catholic church's 1.1 billion poeple, what the Pope says is not merely a 'comment'.  I agree that the concession was very limited, but ''any'' concession on this issue is fairly significant IMO.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Pointless Support''' after thinking about it I think this is pretty important and a definite step forward. Outside of southern and eastern Africa prostitutes, gay men and intravenous drug users are by far the main spreaders of HIV, I don't believe the pope has an issue with clean needles so prostitutes are the next obvious group to suggest condom use is appropriate for. It would have been nice for him to include gay men as well (though if you read between the lines he kinda does by saying ''male'' prostitutes), but that would have been more difficult. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 14:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::What would the blurb be, and what article would be linked?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The article would be [[Catholic Church and AIDS]] and the blurb would be something like: <code>Pope Benedict XVI reverses the Catholic churches total ban on condoms by saying that they may be acceptable in some cases.</code> -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 16:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Or <code>Pope Benedict XVI says that condoms may be acceptable in some cases in the fight against AIDS.</code> -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 19:54, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::'''Comment''' Regarding '''Pointless Support'''  Gay men can no longer be called the major spreaders of HIV inside or outside of Africa.  This is a misconception that started with a grain of truth and has since been actively cultivated by those who desire to continue blaming homosexuals.  Currently AIDs is very roughly equivalently distributed accross the population; that is men and women contract aids at roughly equal rates. [[User:CoolMike|CoolMike]] ([[User talk:CoolMike|talk]]) 20:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' per [[Every Sperm Is Sacred]]. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 20:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Strong Oppose''' becuase of the questions regarding the real content of the interview.  In addition, I oppose becuase the fact that a religious leader saying that a religious doctrine kind-of, sort-of, sometimes, may be wrong is not notable.  If the Pope had issued an official doctrine changing the Churches stance on condoms I would strongly support the including in ITN.  As it stands, the statement from the Pope that the use of condoms may sometimes be a moral dicision is not really very notable.  [[User:CoolMike|CoolMike]] ([[User talk:CoolMike|talk]]) 20:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support'''.  The Vatican has [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11821422 broadened] it's support ''"saying their use by men and women to prevent HIV could be an act of 'responsibility'."''--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

====Irish Financial Bailout==== 
I am re-nominating this, because now there is a formal request[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/business/global/22debt.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw] for financial assistance from the Government of Ireland to EU and IMF. We can continue with the discussion [[#Irish Banking Bailout |here]].  [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 21:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:There is a short update at [[2008–2010 Irish financial crisis]], but not enough to post yet. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

==November 20==
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{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 20}}
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====[[Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2010]]====
* [[Vladimir Arzumanyan]] from [[Armenia in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest|Armenia]] wins the '''[[Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2010]]''' held in [[Minsk]], [[Belarus]] with the song "[[Mama (Vladimir Arzumanyan song)|Mama]]". [[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:17, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
**'''Strongest oppose''' How are we even suppose to take this seriously? '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 21:30, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
**That is not up to me.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
***Sorry, but you've suggested (and had rejected) enough items to know what isn't accepted. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 21:34, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
****JESC has millions of viewers and many of the winners has gone on to have successful careers in their countries. So its definitly up to personal taste how important this contest is. But to dismiss it completly like you do I find a bit bizzare.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
****For example its one of the most viewed shows in Belarus each year. And more than one country apply to host it each year.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:38, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
*****We don't post [[American Idol]], which I'm sure has millions more viewers. This isn't the place to feature a children's talent show. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 21:42, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******Apparently more people vote in ''[[The X-Factor]]'' than the senior ESC. ''AI'' wins because the U.S. has a higher population but a higher percentage of the British vote in their show than the Americans on theirs, although you can argue that ''AI'' is shown in more countries. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 06:24, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
******P.S. for those who care [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/Junior%20Eurovision%20Song%20Contest%202010 more people viewed] this than the Gaelic football article. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 18:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Minor music contest, little significance, tiny media coverage. However, Grsz please [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]] in the nomination. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 21:46, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''.  A children's talent show doesn't really cut it.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 21:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

====United States compensation payments====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11802327 BBC]. "A 15 year-old suit by Native Americans" and "Many of the claims date back to the 19th century". Involving "at least 300,000 Native Americans", it has been going on "for 15 years and encompassed 3,600 court filings and 80 judicial rulings". It all sounds very important but I don't know which article could be used. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 04:59, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:[[Cobell v. Salazar]], which is in pretty rough shape. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 05:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' mostly because Its a farce of legislation and does very little to allocating money to where its needed. This is good publicity but very little substance.[[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 05:40, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''comment''' -- The bill is not law yet; it still needs to pass the House and be signed by the President.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 07:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' because the title is both speculative and sensational, and NOT that the legislation is a farce. Far from it, An inordinate amount of both legal, legslative and political work has been going on, and the work is continuing. ( and the article here needs work ).--[[Special:Contributions/69.232.223.35|69.232.223.35]] ([[User talk:69.232.223.35|talk]]) 05:14, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>The title comes from what the BBC article says. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
==November 19==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 19]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 19}}
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====[[Nissan Leaf]]====
* The '''[[Nissan Leaf]]''', the world's first all-[[electric car]] purposely designed for [[mass production]], is launched for test driving ahead of deliveries due to start next month.
Meh. I thought it had actually gone on sale when I first saw this, but the public launching for test drives in several markets is getting a good deal of press anyway, as you would expect, so why wait I say. [[User:MickMacNee|MickMacNee]] ([[User talk:MickMacNee|talk]]) 18:36, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Neutral'''. I'd rather wait for the first day it goes on sale, but if we reach consensus to post it I wouldn't protest. I think given the fact it is the first all-electric car to go on sale is fairly important. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 19:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose for Now''' Revisit when they go on sale like Plasma said [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 19:29, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose for now''' This is just test driving, wait until sale date. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 21:07, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Wait''', it goes on sale in December, wait until then.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 00:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Wait'''. If it's expected to go on sale next month, post it then, but there doesn't seem much point in posting it twice in a maximum of 6 weeks. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:56, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support, but wait''' until launch. The first mass-produced vehicle from a large automotive company to switch from gasoline to electric is definitely a notable move. I'm anxious to see how they sell. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 03:14, 20 November 2010 (UTC) 
::'''Support when launched''' [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 10:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC) 
:'''Temporary Oppose'''. Okay, lets not go so fast. Even if a hundred people say support, our administrators will not post it. One more thing, if it is posted now, then it cannot be posted after the car is launched. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:26, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::Um, there is no rule against articles appearing more than once on ITN, although yes generally they don't appear for the same reason. Also, if "a hundred people say support", barring opposes in similar quantity and in good opinion, [[WP:consensus|consensus]] would indeed be to post it. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 08:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I wanted to claim that if it is posted now. Then posting it again for the same reason would be blatant violation of the rules(if im correct). --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 09:46, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::::The point is, there are no hard and fast "rules", only guidelines. Our guidelines even say only elections are posted, and generally not inaugurations, but Barack Obama's inauguration was posted. [[wikt:blatant|"Blatant"]] violation of non-existent rules? Hmm... [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:04, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::There are no guidelines that say inaugurations are ''not'' to be posted, though that's general practice.  [[WP:ITNR]], one of the few written guidelines on what is posted on ITN, lists things, including national elections, that are have consensus for posting.  ITNR does not specify events that are not to be posted.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 14:42, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Lisbon summit]]====
Member states and observers of [[NATO]] will meet over the next two days. The council is expected to adopt a new strategic concept. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 02:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Support''' this is one of the most important meetings in NATO history [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11793407 (BBC)]--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 07:46, 19 November 2010 (UTC) 
**'''Wait''' until something happens. Although it is announced as "new strategic concept" there are no conclusions at this time. The concept is "almost there". Plus, I kinda like the Prince engagement there on top, let's keep him for another week or so... [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 08:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' According to [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11711042 Obama via the BBC], members have agreed to a missile defense shield to cover all member-state. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 20:29, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:That seems to be a fairly big announcement, particularly given the fact that [[Dmitry Medvedev]] is in attendance.  The fact that over 30 heads of state are all in one place seems pretty notable to me in and of itself.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 00:52, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::Perhaps upon closing, we could use a blurb like <code>The heads of government of the [[NATO]] member states '''[[2010 Lisbon summit|agree]]''' to develop a mutual missile defense system (and withdraw from Afghanistan by 2014).</code> The Afghanistan part is tentative, and may not be worth including - mostly political talk. '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 04:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' I would like to see both new strategy concept and missile defence in the blurb. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 11:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::In that case, <code>At a '''[[2010 Lisbon summit|summit in Lisbon]]''', the heads of government of the [[NATO]] member states adopt a new Strategic Concept and agree to develop a mutual [[missile defense]] system.</code> '''[[User:Grsz11|<span style="color:black;">Grsz</span>]] [[User talk:Grsz11|<b style="color:red;">11</b>]]''' 19:01, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 22:41, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  04:14, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Pike River mine accident]] ====
At least 27 miners are still trapped inside. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:26, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Wait''' to see what happens. To be frank, mine accidents happen all the time, but unless this grows into a Chile San José-type deal, then probably '''oppose'''. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:33, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Unless it is determined that there is a significant number of fatalities or if it turns into a Chilean miners-type rescue spectacular.  <span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;">'''/[[User:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">ƒETCH</span>]][[User talk:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">COMMS</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">/</span>]]'''</span> 13:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as per SP and Fetchcomms. Can always be renominated if there are significant developments, but it's not ITN material at the moment. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 13:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support'''. We posted the [[Upper Big Branch Mine disaster]] back in April and that had similar casualty figures to the number of missing in this incident. Also, mining accidents in major economically developed countries are quite rare. Still, it's worth waiting to see what the fate of those 27 is {{small|of course, hoping that they're found alive and well}}. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

==== Congo jail mass break-out ====
Nearly 200 prisoners in the [[Democratic Republic of the Congo]] escape from a jail in the northwest of the country. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11790985 (BBC)] This is huge compared to [[Jail_escape#Famous_historical_escapes|earlier escapes]]. We need an article. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:36, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:No, we really don't, and I'd AFD it if it was created. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::FWiW, we've posted jail breaks before. I believe we posted one in the Philippines a few months ago. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:28, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. This really depends on the security level of the prison and in what sort of condition said prison type is in Congo (in comparison to other countries). I think a maximum-security prison break would be much more notable (and perhaps worthy of a blurb) than a minimum- or medium-security prison break. In this case, "Mutinies are frequent in Congolese prisons where conditions are harsh." Hence my !vote. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 03:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Cook Islands general election, 2010]] ====
*Nominate the the [[Cook Islands general election, 2010]] and the change of government that followed.  The [[Cook Islands Party]] won a majority, ousting the Democratic Party.  [[Henry Puna]] will become the new Prime Minister, succeeding outgoing PM [[Jim Marurai]]. [[User:Scanlan|Scanlan]] ([[User talk:Scanlan|talk]]) 02:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. It's an election, a change of prime minister and the article has lots of references. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:19, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', election in a non-sovereign entity which is not a UN member. As this is a fairly inconsequential election in the grand scheme of things (for example, if a pro-sovereignty party was elected, I might consider), there is no way I can support. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 06:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 18==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 18]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 18}}
{{cob}}
---- 
====Irish Banking Bailout====
Ok, this may be premature but it's been the top headline on the BBC for a day, and as I understand a decision is fairly imminent.  The [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11793025 BBC] seems to think that Ireland are about to accept a bank bailout from either the EU or the IMF.  I assume that this would be notable enough for ITN.  The most relevant existing article would probably be [[2008–2010 Irish banking crisis]].  I'm not that well informed on this subject, but as I understand officials are meeting right now and a decision on this could happen any day now.  Comments?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 01:26, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:I had a look earlier on: there's also [[2008–2010 Irish financial crisis]], which is slightly more up to date. Sunday seems like a likely announcement date from the comments I've read, or even later. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:31, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::ug two forks? We need to get this sorted out [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 04:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Both articles were DYKs, and appeared within a week. I smell [[WP:WIKICUP]] point-padding. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 06:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty sure this will be ITN-fodder once something is actually agreed, but that could be days or weeks. Let's '''wait''' to see what happens. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:51, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Wait''' once something definite is announced though I agree Its heading that way. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 01:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::It's an interesting question as to exactly ''when'' we should post it. Judgning by past bailouts, there could be several weeks between the political agreement and the formal signing of papers. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:29, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:::What exactly needs to happen for the bailout to go ahead?  Will it require approval by the Irish legislature, or can it be signed by the PM?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 07:31, 19 November 2010 (UTC) 
::'''Wait''' There has to be at least informal agreement between the banks, the government (PM), EU and IMF, about the format of the bailout, which is still not in place, as you can see [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11794106 here]. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 09:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::: The story is developing [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11805529] However, we should probably wait until it's official. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 17:46, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The ''Irish Times'' is [http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1121/breaking26.html reporting] several European finance ministers saying that a formal request has been made and has been accepted. Apparently no formal announcement from Dublin yet. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:33, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:Press conference. [http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1121/economy.html RTÉ]. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 21:00, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11807730 BBC] confirming confirmation from the Irish [[Taoiseach]] (PM). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:03, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' as per my comment above. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 21:13, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

====China Telecom reroutes Internet traffic====

A congressional panel concluded that massive volumes of Internet traffic had been redirected unnecessarily through servers in China. During an 18-minute stretch on April 8, China Telecom rerouted traffic sent to about 15% of the Internet's destinations, including branches of the U.S. armed services, the U.S. Senate and companies like Microsoft Corp. The sophistication, size and targets of the attacks suggest some level of state support. [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704648604575621071689674364.html] [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 04:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:very speculative. apparently this happens occasionally but usually networks can not handle that kind of traffic. China Telecom somehow pulled it off and thats pretty much all they have. it could just mean they simply have kickass routers. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 04:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC) 
::you are right, and, due to the nature of Internet routing it is very hard prove intention, however, the congressmen are talking about targeting. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 04:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sadly only the "Flashy" National security stories get posted here. Its interesting though [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:18, 18 November 2010 (UTC) 
::I posted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates&oldid=397444394#Prince_William_Carried_Engagement_Ring_Around_for_Weeks one] that may be more to majority's taste, but someone erased it. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 17:42, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose''' unless there is some real evidence of foul play. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 18:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose''': this was an 18 minute glitch seven months ago and there is no  evidence it was anything more than a technical error, indeed the Congressional committee explicitly refused to attribute it to malice.  These kind of technical snafus occur regularly and usually pass without widespread attention.  

:::The source cited also does not make any direct allegation of state involvement, it merely raises it as a possibility.  Even if that was the case it does not necessarily indicate e.g. intelligence services involvement, which is what that style of phrasing seems intended to imply.  It could equally well be simply the glitch occurred on a network under government control, or indeed (if it was malicious) it was the work of a lone network engineer with a desire to cause disruption or "load test" their network.  

:::When you strip away the surrounding hyperbole this boils down to nothing more than a technical glitch.  I wonder if the same attitude be adopted if the problem occurred in the UK, Germany, or some other "friendly" (to the US) government. [[User:Crispmuncher|Crispmuncher]] ([[User talk:Crispmuncher|talk]]) 19:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', not enough globel impact. [[User:Meshach|meshach]] ([[User talk:Meshach|talk]]) 21:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

====HIP 13044 b====
*A planet, HIP 13044 b, which was formed in another galaxy has been discovered in the [[List of stellar streams|Helmi Stream]]. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11775803 (BBC)]. No article on it has been created yet but i feel this is very significant as it is apparently the first planet that has been discovered outside of the [[Milky Way]]. [[User:Simply south|Simply south]] ([[User talk:Simply south|talk]]) 00:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. This planet is very definitely inside the Milky Way. The star system probably formed in a satellite galaxy that later fell into the MW, but it's still there now. The planet was in fact found a couple of years ago, the new bit is that the host star has been identified as part of the stream. This is an unexceptional planet discovery (they're running at dozens per year), that just happens to be around a stream star. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::Sorry my mistake, i did not read the article properly. It is significant as it is is the first planet within our galaxy originating from outside ours. [[User:Simply south|Simply south]] ([[User talk:Simply south|talk]]) 00:52, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::THey actually get almost 100 a year nowadays. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 18:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Weak support'''. Seems that users have been eager in creating the article [[HIP 13044 b]]. May be of intrest. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Maybe/maybe not''': I DYK-ed it anyway, so both DYK and News may make it too hot a topic. And in this day and age of ''dancing with the stars'' most of the public will think this is a "hip star" on that show anyway. [[User:History2007|History2007]] ([[User talk:History2007|talk]]) 14:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:: DYK sounds reasonable. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 15:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

====Colombia floods====
Major disaster, much damage, high toll. [[User:Simply south|Simply south]] ([[User talk:Simply south|talk]]) 19:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. From the article [[2010 Colombia floods]]: "Weeks of heavy rains in Colombia have left at least 136 people dead and disrupted the lives of more than 1.2 million as the country faces its worst rainy season in three decades. Severe flooding and landslides triggered by torrential rains have damaged or destroyed more than 200,000 homes in all but five of Colombia's 32 provinces". If this is the case it sounds like a big enough disaster. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 22:20, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Apparently a state of emergency in 28 of the 32 departments of Colombia, up to 138 dead, about 200 injured at 1.&nbsp;million affected. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 22:34, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. 100+ dead. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 23:06, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Suggest: <code>A '''[[2010 Colombia floods|series of flash floods]]''' kills 136 people and disrupts more than 1.2 million others in 27 [[Colombia]]n provinces.</code> --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 03:28, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  03:37, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
*:I've pulled this posting because most of the article is copyright violation. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 03:47, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 17==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 17]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 17}}
{{cob}}


====Antimatter atom trapped====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11773791 BBC]. CERN has managed to trap Antihydrogen atoms for the first time. I may not be expert at theoretical physics but im pretty sure this is a very big achievement. Till now they were always destroyed almost instantly. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 19:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' something of a scientific breakthrough. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 19:24, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Certainly seems notable and interesting. It would be ideal to gain consensus as soon as possible; the lead item on the template was added several days ago. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 19:29, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. It's not the first time they've been trapped, but it is the first time they've been trapped for a human-relevant timescale. [[Antihydrogen]] is a bit of a mess though. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 20:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature09610.html Here's the paper] [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 20:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::well to my understanding till now they couldn't really slow the particles down enough to do anything with them. so im assuming by ''trapping'' they mean they've successfully slowed them enough to get readings within fraction of a second. cant open the paper :( -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 20:09, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::<small>Does this means CERN will try to [[Angels & Demons|blow up the Vatican soon?]][[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 00:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Not unless they plan to do it 38 atoms at a time [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
:'''Support''' this seems like a big deal, it'd be nice to get something new up. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak oppose'''. This doesn't seem like a major breakthrough to me. When I read in the article that antihydrogen atoms were first created in 1995, the news leaves me feeling a bit underwhealmed. And they haven't managed to get a spectrum yet, which is really the point of the efforts. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:34, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::That's... kinda true, I guess. Still, the media seem to think this is a big deal too. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''SPEEDY POST NOW''' Obvious huge break through. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 22:14, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Not yet, article [[Antihydrogen]] needs to be updated accordingly. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 22:22, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Support''' as per above. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 22:53, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::any science major willing to update [[Antihydrogen]] properly? -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 22:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Physics is not my strong suit or i would. I learn astronomy, Physics and Quantum Mechanics from good science fiction. lol 23:57, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:*I just got to thinking... this is a [[Trinity (nuclear test)|Trinity Test]] type moment... This will change war forever. get the same annihilation of the enemy you would get from a Atom bomb without the Nuclear Fallout... disturbing [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 17:42, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. I remember reading about this having been achieved once (reading the Wikipedia article, I'll correct that to twice) already, but I don't think they had the chance to see them for as long as they did today. So I support this. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 23:24, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per above. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 01:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Query''': we usually insist on publication in peer evaluated journal fo rscience stories: has this happened? [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 06:29, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it's been published in Nature, one of the top journals. What we need is a bit more than one sentence update to Antihydrogen and we could get rid of those tags... Then it will be ready to post. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 08:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
{{hat|Not a soapbox, ladies/gents.}}
*'''Support'''. we need some sensible stuff up instead of tabloid trash about some wedding announcement.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 12:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**'''Off-topic''': I don't know if you realise this, but this "tabloid trash" confirms who will become head of state in EVERY commonwealth country following Prince Charles' death (and he's in his 60's). I know Americans of your type don't seem to care about this "unsensible" matter, but it's a big deal for the two billion people affected. I don't personally care about it extremely, but I do hate people talking BS like that. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 23:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Before you take editors to task, be confident in your facts.  The UK monarch is not head of state in every Commonwealth member state, as many are republics: the realm is nowhere even close to 2 billion people (134 million according to the relevant article).  William's status as second in line is in no way linked to his marital status, yet alone engagement, so this confirms absolutely nothing. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 00:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::::<small>lets not get off track from the topic please. take this on talk pages for prince william discussion -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 02:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC) </small>
{{hab}}
*'''Support''' Should be speedily posted.--[[User:Cdogsimmons|Cdogsimmons]] ([[User talk:Cdogsimmons|talk]]) 03:31, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I would very much like to post this but as long as we have the tag on the top of the article and one sentence update it is not enough for ITN. Please expand first (don't have time myself...) --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 07:41, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The tag was put there because there was no mention of the capture. (See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Antihydrogen&diff=next&oldid=396629215] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAntihydrogen&action=historysubmit&diff=397390213&oldid=388855454]).  The article has now been updated and I've removed the tag.--[[Special:Contributions/146.121.21.2|146.121.21.2]] ([[User talk:146.121.21.2|talk]]) 17:33, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
*Why isn't this up yet? There have been over 10 supports and only 1 weak oppose. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 19:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
** The [[Antihydrogen]] article has only one sentence about the discovery. I espect that a little bit more to be written. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 19:14, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
***Now it has two para. It's been two days since the last update! [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Splendid. Posted. Feel free to modify the blurb. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 22:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

====Cook Islands====
[[Cook Islands general election, 2010|Election]] and a [[Cook Islands Member of Parliament reduction referendum, 2010|referendum]] are taking place today. Links in the CE box. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 13:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I'm usually an advocate of posting the small nations... except this one isn't a nation, rather a non-Sovereign associated state. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 19:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Support''' if its a referendum on independence, '''Oppose''' otherwise as its not a Sovereign state. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:08, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
**It's a referendum on decreasing the size of the local legislature. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 22:44, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. This is run-of-the mill politics in a subnational entity. As with Eraserhead, I think the only referenda in such entities that we should post are ones governing independence, and elections should be left off. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''; not a sovereign entity and not of anywhere close to even regional, Oceanian, interest. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 01:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''': Those opposing on the assumption that the Cook Islands is not a sovereign state should be aware that there is an [[Talk:List of sovereign states/Cook Islands and Niue|ongoing discussion]] about whether this is indeed the case. As it is not on the list at the moment, however, it's hard for one to invoke [[WP:ITN/R]] in this case. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 08:47, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Wow that's a long, complicated discussion. If the contributors there can't work out how to handle the situation, we've got no chance. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 16==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 16]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 16}}
{{cob}}
----
====Mexican Cuisine UNESCO’s Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity====
After 10 years of failed attempts, Mexican cuisine has finally attained status as one of UNESCO’s Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. The formal announcement was made today (Nov. 16) in Nairobi, Kenya. Here's the links: http://noticias.prodigy.msn.com/nacional/articulo.aspx?cp-documentid=26372027
http://cuisinexplorersnews.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/unesco-declares-mexican-cuisine-intangible-cultural-heritage-of-humanity/
http://casadecolores.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/traditional-mexican-cuisine-granted-unesco-status/

To me it seems much more relevant in a global scale than trivial solely anglophone events such as "The Beatles are now on iTunes". It also seems more fit to appear on the "In the news" column than the sport events constantly being placed in it and to which you appear to be biased. I believe sports have no more importance than cultural events and you are in fact biased towards sports and Europe and the United States. The only times Latin America or Asia appear on the news is because of some natural disaster or political struggle. Stop being biased and allow a non-European or American country appear for something other than sport achievements or natural disasters and allow a cultural event (those who you seem to self-righteously exclude from the column) appear in said column. Thank you.
:Posting would require us to be biased to the other items that were added that you don't mention, such as [[flamenco]] dancing, [[Kashan rug]]s, and the 44 other items listed at the same time. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' the list was started only 2 years ago and there's like 100s of items in there. To be honest it doesn't look like its exceptionally hard to make it to the list nor does it sound like a big achievement. so oppose for the fact that list is growing way too fast and we cant pick and choose properly. On the same note oppose for french cuisine below too -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 03:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

====The Beatles on iTunes====
The [[Beatles]] are now on [[iTunes]]. I think that would be significant enough for ITN. Thanks! [[User:Endofskull|Endofskull]] ([[User talk:Endofskull|talk]]) 23:53, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:Why? [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''On the Fence Neutral''' From a Legal, Tech, and Music standpoint this seems significant as the lengthy litigation history between [[Apple Records]] and [[Apple computers]] has its own aritcle. [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703326204575617004052395816.html Apple has 25% share of the (Legal) Online music industry] and [http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS184883909220100526 more than a quarter of all music sold in the US]. So its a big section of Music market that Beatles have not been in.  But I can see our putting it on ITN as almost seem like a press release for Apple. so On the fence [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 00:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. A court case has been settled, and both companies now stand to make more money. Whoop-dee-doo. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:42, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Um, no. Definitely not ''that'' major. And it would seem almost like free Apple advertising. <span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;">'''/[[User:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">ƒETCH</span>]][[User talk:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">COMMS</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">/</span>]]'''</span> 03:35, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::You do have a point there. [[User:Endofskull|Endofskull]] ([[User talk:Endofskull|talk]]) 22:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''.  It is astonishing that this made the top news at CNN, but their poor judgment on a slow news day shouldn't push us toward running this advert.  [[User:Comet Tuttle|Comet Tuttle]] ([[User talk:Comet Tuttle|talk]]) 01:44, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:It's an interesting story, but there's no way we could phrase a blurb that wouldn't make it seem like we're giving Apple a bit of free publicity. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:34, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

====2010 eruptions of Mount Merapi====
[[Mount Merapi]] in [[Indonesia]] erupts, causing 259 deaths and the general evacuation over 350,000 people.
350,000 evacuations, 194 deaths, very well developed article, more then ready IMO: we discussed this a while back but it's been archived. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:#731A25;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:#B31023;">Mar</span>]]</span> 22:33, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:Edit: [http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/merapi-eruption-image-dead-zone-101116-0745/ 259 now]. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:#731A25;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:#B31023;">Mar</span>]]</span> 22:35, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' 259 deaths is significant. This one is a big deal. It was in the Economist last week. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 22:40, 16 November 2010 (UTC) 
:'''Support''' We had this suggestion some time ago, but someone blocked it for no apparent reason. Now, with 259 deaths and 350k evacuations, it is a very significant event. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 22:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::As well as being in the Economist, it was on ITN last week: not blocked, but featured from 00:04 November 7 to 03:11 November 10.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 23:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''Agree with Eraserhead 259 deaths is significant.[[User:Winner 42|'''Winner 42''']]  [[User talk: Winner 42|Talk to me!]]  00:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Erm, the eruption was on 25&nbsp;October, wasn't it? The last news I saw was that people were starting to return to the affected areas. Has there been a new eruption that has killed all these people? Because, if not, it is no longer "in the news". [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:24, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Nothing has changed since it was on ITN last week except the death toll. If it was still on ITN it'd only warrant an update of the toll. No reason to post the same story twice. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 00:35, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. We've already posted this (though the article talk page seems to be missing this fact). I don't think there's enough new developments to justify a second posting. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[2010 eruptions of Mount Merapi]] was the focus article last time, and would/should still be for any new posting. The ITN is correctly reflected at that talk page. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 00:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Ahh, good point, I was just hunting in the archives to try to work that out :p [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Retract''' Ah, I did not see that it was already posted, thought it had been put on back-burner and left =) Apologies. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:#731A25;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:#B31023;">Mar</span>]]</span> 02:42, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::Wait wait, I can't find it in the archives. Can someone direct me to where this is supposed to be? Thanks, <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:#731A25;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:#B31023;">Mar</span>]]</span> 02:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I've already given you the dates and times: look at the history on ITN if you don't believe me. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&diff=next&oldid=395358056 Ok, found it]. It's confusing because it was not properly attributed, either on the talk page or in the archives. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:#731A25;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:#B31023;">Mar</span>]]</span> 00:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

====French cuisine====
[[UNESCO]] adds [[French cuisine|the gastronomic meal of the French]] to the [[Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity]] - [http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20101116-unesco-adds-french-cuisine-heritage-list] [http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?lg=en&pg=00011&RL=00437]
*Very rare opportunity to put cuisine on front page.[[Special:Contributions/195.169.141.54|195.169.141.54]] ([[User talk:195.169.141.54|talk]]) 15:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support if''' we don't post the item below. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 19:42, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
**'''Oppose.''' We can't just support everything just because people think there should be less violence on ITN. The Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity added <s>over 50</s> 76 cultural traditions to their list last year; what makes the addition of French cuisine any more important? '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 20:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
**I would support a nomination about the updating of the [[Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity]], but not one that confined itself to "French cuisine" (actually only the cuisine of one region of France, however good it tastes!) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:44, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' if the addition of the "traditional Mexican food" is also included. Why has that not been noticed and why hasn't it been included in the headline or opening sentence by the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11768231 BBC]? Apparently the first time cuisine has been included as well. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 22:19, 16 November 2010 (UTC) 
:'''Comment''' - normally I would support this, but then, how many other items are on that list that haven't made it ITN? [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 23:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per my comments under the Mexican section above. Forty-six new items were added and though I'm a fan of UNESCO and culture (I've written UNESCO FLs), who decides which particular items to mention and not. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

====Royal engagement====
Top story on the BBC and CNN is the announcement by [[Clarence House]] of [[Prince William of Wales]]' engagement to [[Kate Middleton]]. Personally, <s>I wouldn't mind this being posted as a change from sports and disasters, but I also wouldn't mind not posting it until the wedding next year</s> '''support'''. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 13:10, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Oppose''' Let's wait for the wedding. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' Preumably, this engagement is going to be quite a big news story around the world. It would look a bit odd if it's missed out here. [[User:Rob|Rob]] ([[User talk:Rob|talk]]) 13:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Its a year away for the wedding, I see no reason not to have the announcement and the actual wedding. If it was Henry i would not be so supportive but William is most likely the next Monarch. Its also UK oriented which is of interest to a sizeable portion of our english readership [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 13:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Has anyone tolkd his  father that? [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 16:31, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' - Announcement is not notable enough to feature. No doubt the wedding will be, when it happens. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 13:33, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:<s>'''Oppose'''. The wedding —the actual formal act of marriage— will be notable. An engagement is not.</s> '''Support''', per [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]]. It's obviously getting serious coverage, and it is a bit of change from the usual "MILLIONS DEAD" stuff we constantly post. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 13:39, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' on the "why not?" principle. The engagement is making big news in places like [http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2010/11/16/97001-20101116FILWWW00514-le-prince-william-annonce-son-mariage.php France] and [http://www.elpais.com/articulo/gente/tv/Guillermo/Inglaterra/compromete/Kate/Middleton/elpepugen/20101116elpepuage_1/Tes Spain]. SP says it's the top story on CNN, and it makes it onto the front of the ''[http://www.nytimes.com/ New York Times]''. Oh, and it's at least as significant as a boxing fight (if not more so). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 13:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Is this really entitled two ITNs? one for the engagments and one for the wedding. Wedding is the most importantant if we only make decision for one ITN. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Why not? I don't think there's any rule limiting articles to only one ITN. This isn't like DYK. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 14:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::No, there's no rule about limiting articles on ITN – although any future story about [[Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir]] (three ITNs) will have to be pretty good to get past the cynical old hacks around here, and the photo of [[Fernando Lugo]] (about two weeks on the template) is a standing joke ;) I don't see that this is any different from posting both the election and the inauguration of [[Barrack Obama]] (another ITN regular). Even if there were, we now have an article on the [[wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton]], which will no doubt be longer when the day arrives. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Barack Obama's inauguration was historically significant--first black US president.  If William or the bride were black or maybe Muslim, I might see a comparison.  But not here.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:42, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Maybe Obama's '''''election''''' was historically significant in the context of the United States, but his ''inauguration'' was something we put up because it was all over the news and marked a significant change in situation. Same here, sorry. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:40, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::We are not bound by loosely comparable precedent. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 20:39, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' on the basis of the role of future head of state of more than a dozen of sovereign countries, of the fact that it is a much anticipated event. Also a bit of glamour in the middle of all this doom and gloom is quite pleasant. [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 13:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''[[Prince William of Wales|Prince William]]''', second in line to the thrones of the 16 [[Commonwealth realm]]s, and '''[[Kate Middleton]]''' announce their engagement to be [[Marriage|married]] next year. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 13:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Let's wait for the wedding. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 14:15, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::As if we're like overwhealmed with stuff to post... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' maybe rewrite/rephrase that a bit. It's perfectly notable. This woman is now on course to one day become a Queen, and the whole thing is attracting significant media attention around the world. --'''[[User:Dorsal Axe|<span style="color:#32CD32">Dorsal</span>]]''' [[User talk:Dorsal Axe|<span style="color:#32CD32">Axe</span>]] 14:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. wait till wedding ( if it happens)--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 14:27, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' in favor of waiting. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 14:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Note''' [[Wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton]] is at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton|An AFD]] due to nomination based on a [[WP:CRYSTAL]] argument. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::Irrelevant, it's not even linked from the proposed blurb! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:46, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Agreed, whether or not that survives AFD (which it almost certainly will, from the looks of things) has, or should have, no impact on the candidate story here as it's not the focus of the blurb. The wedding article will certainly be the focus when it comes to the actual wedding. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 15:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' if only to take a break from sports/disaster month.  We shouldn't wait for the wedding since that's months away.  For a comparison, when the President of Poland died in a plane crash earlier this year, we posted his death and funeral within a week of eachother.  So posting the engagement and the wedding isn't that bad. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  16:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''': Engagement has no legal, canonical or moral status, it is no more than an indication of a future plan. They got engaged in October, today's events are no more than an overhyped form of press release. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 16:31, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::So what? If they broke it off next month that doesn't mean this is still not newsworthy. If the US said that they "intend to drop the atomic bomb on North Korea next week" would you also oppose, based on the fact that it is simply an ''indication of a future plan'' ? <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">[[User:Pedro|<b>Pedro</b>]] : [[User_talk:Pedro|<span style="color:#accC10; background:#0000fa;">&nbsp;Chat&nbsp;</span>]] </span></small> 17:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::News media make a call as to what is newsworthy: we make a call as to what current stories are of encyclopaedic interest. They will report widely on speculation as to the custody of the children of a deceased actress: thankfully, we do not.  As to your example, most readers will consider a threat of war to be of a different category of notability than a threat to marry, regards of who one's garndmama may be.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 20:37, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per Physchim62 and DC. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 17:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - Massive news item; the BBC themselves have just done something on how this is being globally reported as front page. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">[[User:Pedro|<b>Pedro</b>]] : [[User_talk:Pedro|<span style="color:#accC10; background:#0000fa;">&nbsp;Chat&nbsp;</span>]] </span></small> 17:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::Noting the  opposes below, at the time of posting Google requests regarding this bit of news represent 3 of the top twenty search terms <s>globally</s> in the US, including positions 1 & 2 [http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?sa=X&oi=prbx_hot_trends&ct=more-results] (not permanent link). The category is "'''IN THE NEWS'''". I'm struggling to see how this is anything but global news, that can be supported by the encyclopedia for background information for our readership. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">[[User:Pedro|<b>Pedro</b>]] : [[User_talk:Pedro|<span style="color:#accC10; background:#0000fa;">&nbsp;Chat&nbsp;</span>]] </span></small> 18:44, 16 November 2010 (UTC) 
:'''Oppose'''.  After scanning various websites, I'm not impressed with the 'massive news' argument here.  While widely reported, there's no mention at [http://www.xinhuanet.com/english2010/ Xinhua] or [http://english.aljazeera.net/ Al Jazeera] (EDIT: there's a mention there now).  As far as I can see it's not a top headline outside the UK generally.  Considering that this will be posted when the marriage actually happens, I'd say lets wait.  Plus, the engagement actually happened last month.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Most'' of what we post is not "top headline" material in most countries, that's why we continually insist that we are not a news ticker! Considering that the marriage is 6–99&nbsp;months down the line, why should we be denying ourselves the chance of a decent story, supported by decent articles, that makes a change from our usual fare and which is very much "in the news"? [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The news ticker argument works both ways here.  As for the 'change from usual fare' argument, I'd be more convinced if this were of any real significance, not just some 'William get's engaged, Queen delighted, Kate's parents delighted, Kate very happy about the ring", etc.  We're gonna have to post this once--that's enough IMHO.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:22, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::(ec from below) Not at all. What was the significance of Obama's inauguration, apart from his election by the American people? We have a story, that's in the news worldwide, supported by two decent articles that give thorough background to the story... why not? The story has far more significance than much of the stuff we post! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:53, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::What's the significance here?  The Queen's really happy?  Kate likes the ring?  The ring's really big?  That's the type of subject matter that dominates most of the articles on this.  Tabloid fodder.  I won't even comment on the Obama comparison.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 20:10, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Why won't you comment on the Obama comparison? Because we make an exception for U.S. presidents in posting their inaugurations as well as their elections, even though the inaugurations are simply the logical consequence of their elections? As for the significance, what's the significance of a boxing fight, or a volleyball championship, or an election in Guinea for that matter? [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:33, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Having had a quick check around the web using the above criteria - front page news not only South Africa and India, for example, but even papers in the likes of Uruguay and Argentina ( http://www.elpais.com.uy/ / http://www.buenosairesherald.com/ / http://www.losandes.com.ar/ ), even if not every single online newspaper at present. [[User:Harami2000|Harami2000]] ([[User talk:Harami2000|talk]]) 19:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' - even the wedding would be irrelevant for the main page. Prince William is not even a Crown prince.--[[Special:Contributions/89.110.232.235|89.110.232.235]] ([[User talk:89.110.232.235|talk]]) 18:15, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:There is one (pretty much same) line of update in both articles. This doesnt yet qualify for ITN with or without notability. And just for future reference this is ''in the news'' so post all the top google news argument doesnt not ever work. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 18:53, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. The wedding itself may be significant enough, possibly (only because she will presumably one day be Queen Consort). But the engagement really isn't. This is just royal gossip-mongering. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - as above: very much more "in the news"/"newsworthy" on a world-wide scale than a volleyball world championship. [[User:Harami2000|Harami2000]] ([[User talk:Harami2000|talk]]) 19:33, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' There appear to be two articles: [[Wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton|The first]] has less substance and is at AfD; [[Wedding of Prince William of Wales and Kate Middleton|the second]] has more substance and is not. One needs redirecting to another; I do not think we can post this while there are two articles on it. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 19:50, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''': The engagement of a direct heir to the throne of so many countries is notable in and of itself.  If they are engaged and do not subsequently marry for whatever reason that would itself make the engagement in such a closely studied family notable - in this case I don't see that you can argue that the wedding itself is the only notable event.  Remember also that this is in the ''news'':  the announcement of the engagement is intrinsically newsworthy, moreso in some respects than the wedding itself which will be widely anticipated by the time it takes place. [[User:Crispmuncher|Crispmuncher]] ([[User talk:Crispmuncher|talk]]) 20:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' clearly notable event for the future king of the UK and other commonwealth countries including Canada and Australia. Thus it is of interest to at least 25% of the readership and should be posted. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 21:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC) 
'''Oppose''' This is a soap opera event, albeit royal soap opera. The marriage will be ITN anyways, and that is officially THE event. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 22:06, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per Physchim62. The engagement of heir to sixteen thrones is notable and newsworthy. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 23:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per above support arguments. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 00:41, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:''Comment''. While we have spent twelve hours arguing, [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/Prince%20William%20of%20Wales 164.9k hits] have been registered on [[Prince William of Wales]], and a massive [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/Kate%20Middleton 433.6k hits] on [[Kate Middleton]] (if you'll excuse the phrase). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Still the #1 viewed and emailed news item on the New York Times, top page on CNN with three out of five of the "Most Popular" slots, front page (twice) on Pravda + now front page on Al Jazeera and Xinhua whereas above it was stated there was "no mention at all... not a top headline outside the UK", etc. [[User:Harami2000|Harami2000]] ([[User talk:Harami2000|talk]]) 06:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' - widespread news coverage be damned, I'm not convinced that an announcement of engagement can ''ever'' be sufficiently encyclopaedic or important to be featured on the main page. I'd be prepared to extend that to marriages as well, actually. These are routine 'events' that only directly affect the couple themselves, and have no relevance to anyone else; and unlike a death, there's no certainty or finality about them. Wikipedia is not a celebrity news website, but an encyclopaedia. [[User:Robofish|Robofish]] ([[User talk:Robofish|talk]]) 11:32, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Coverage of this announcement is everywhere. Even the depth/geographic scope of the coverage the announcement got became a news item in of itself on todays lunchtime bulletins in the UK. Compared to some of the other non-entity crap that gets listed on ITN, this is a no brainer whichever way you look at it. The wedding won't happen for (at least 5, and more likely 9) months, that's usually long enough to get not one but two ITN entries for an election in nowheristan. [[User:MickMacNee|MickMacNee]] ([[User talk:MickMacNee|talk]]) 14:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - World wide coverage [http://topics.edition.cnn.com/topics/prince_william_of_wales], [http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/prince-william-and-kate-middleton-to-marry-next-year/story-e6frg6so-1225954680963], [http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-11-16-uks-prince-william-to-marry-longterm-girlfriend], [http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/4/201011172010111702452287865177a6a/After-8-years-of-courtship-William-proposes-to-Kate.html] and big news interest in the UK, USA and commonwealth countries. --[[User:Wintonian|Wintonian]] ([[User talk:Wintonian|talk]]) 15:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Posting''' [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 15:43, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Belated Strong Oppose'''. You cannot be serious!!! I have never seen a story so opposed yet still make it to the ITN. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 16:56, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:: As much as I don't like removing the items once they are posted, this one was far from consensus and there was significant opposition to it. Removed. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 17:34, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh yeah, great, now what are you going to replace it with? Eh? We were at 38 hours without an update, and you go and take off a perfectly acceptable story which happens to be making headlines across the world! Pathetic. At this rate we deserve to be the laughing stock of the Main Page. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 17:37, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I must protest. Tone, you opposed the nomination, therefore I don't think you can claim to be [[WP:UNINVOLVED]] and would suggest you revert yourself to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I've no opinion on the nomination. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Indeed, an involved editor probably shouldn't be intervening in that manner.
:::::However, as a neutral party, I have to agree that there clearly is no consensus for the item's inclusion.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 17:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is ridiculous. I judged the supports to be much stronger than the opposes, which is the job of the posting administrator. While the latter were numerious, many were based in opinion, and this isn't RfA. On the other hand, the supports were based on the main function of ITN &ndash; to "direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest." I also took into account the substantial amount of time since the last update. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 18:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Misrepresentation: the opposes have centred on the long established principle that we do not post celebrity gossip.  Announcement of an engagement (not the fact of it, which was weeks ago), probably equivalent to announcement of an election.  When that happened in the UK in April it was all over the news, and probably internationally featured, but it was, quite proper;y, not even proposed for ITN.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 20:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::'''Put it back up'''. This is stupid. This is in the news and this is important. It effects the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and plenty of other countries. I don't see a better item with half the amount of support this has. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 18:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::{{ec}} Seconded, Ed. As an uninvolved party, it is evident that the supports outweigh the opposes, and there had not been an update to the template in quite a while. Now the lead item is one that was added two days ago. Can we either add this back in, or something else as soon as possible. It's embarrassing. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 18:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::(ec)If I count correctly, it is seventeen supports to twelve opposes. That's more than plenty of items have. This kind of shit is exactly why itn doesn't work. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 18:41, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I see valid arguments from both sides.  I'm inclined to lean slightly toward supporting the item's inclusion, but there isn't what I would call "consensus."
:::::::I'll note that I don't regard a lack of recent section updates as an appropriate rationale (for ''any'' item's inclusion).  Past discussions have shown that this, too, is a contentious matter.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 18:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::as a neutral party im looking at all the arguments above and i dont think there is consensus to post yet. however once it has been posted by someone it might as well stay on since i dont see consensus for the other side (opposition) either. This is 2nd item that got removed, shanghai fire is the other one (removal of that item was very poor judgement). at this rate we are removing items faster than adding lol.  -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 19:07, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::The two possible outcomes are "consensus to include" (item appears) and "no consensus to include" (item does not appear).  Formal recognition of "no consensus to remove" would serve as an invitation to post every item for which no consensus emerges (and probably would fuel wheel warring).
:::::::::Of course, there is disagreement regarding the consensus (or lack thereof) in this instance.  And if the item ''was'' to be removed, this should have been done by an uninvolved editor.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 19:32, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::What a mess.  I would have called this consensus to post, agreeing with Ed, and think removing it without any further discussion other than an ''ex post facto'' oppose was a very poor move.  Those type of opposes come in anytime something controversial goes up... but almost never an ''ex post facto'' support; because, after all, what's the point wasting time supporting something that is already up?  This should go back up.  [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 19:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with your point regarding retroactive opposition.  In fairness, this does not appear to have been the basis of the item's removal.  It is, however, unfortunate that an involved editor performed this action.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 19:32, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::With 17 supports, 12 opposes, plus a couple supports directly above, I think there is reason enough to put this back up. ITN/C isn't RfA; we don't need a supermajority to post, especially when the opposers are based on opinion or "not twice" (no rule barring the latter), and most of the supporters cite what the basic purpose of ITN is. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 19:42, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::You are the admin, Ed. There is the support for this item and it is pretty clear that there was no consensus to take the item down. You can put it back up if you want and let Tone come on here and argue to take it down, not the other way around. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 19:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::If the item is to be reposted, it would be greatly preferable for ''any'' other uninvolved administrator to do it.  Otherwise, we'll essentially have two sysops wheel warring.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 20:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Exactly why I am not going to be the one to repost. :-) [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 20:14, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I commend your decision to respond via discussion instead of reversion.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 21:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::The "not twice" argument is based upon a belief that the wedding itself is the primary topic (and the current buzz can be interpreted as anticipation of that event).  We post items for announcements of some events but not others, so which column this should fall under is debatable (and I see no consensus stemming from said debate).  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 20:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::We post items for announcements of some events but not others, but we post ''something''! We are now at 44&nbsp;hours without an update, and we have a story backed up by ''two'' updated articles in good condition which happens to all over the news all over the world and generating hundreds of thousands of hits on the articles concerned. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:26, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::As I said, I'm inclined to lean slightly toward supporting the item's inclusion, but I reject the premise that the duration between section updates should be a factor.  An item either meets our inclusion criteria or doesn't, and I don't believe that we should relax our standards out of desperation.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 21:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
The section is called ''In The News''. The royal engagement has been the top news story around the world since it's announcement, so is clearly in the news. What is the problem? William will some day be king of a large chunk of the English speaking world - perhaps if this included the US there wouldn't be an issue? Forgive my cynicism... [[Special:Contributions/194.205.143.129|194.205.143.129]] ([[User talk:194.205.143.129|talk]]) 20:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
: I have to agree. The support arguments were, IMO, stronger than the opposition arguments, and the removal by an involved party was rather suboptimal. As such, I '''posted''' it again. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 20:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::Hopefully, that will be the end of it.  I expect that all of us can agree that switching back and forth makes us appear rather silly.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 21:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:I decline to forgive you for trying to blame this disagreement on American arrogance.  FYI, it's a big story in the U.S. too.  —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 21:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::@194.205.143.129, if he was Prince of the US too it'd probably be ''less'' likely to go up. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 21:05, 17 November 2010 (UTC) 
:'''Soap Opera''' Guys, the guy is SECOND in line to the throne, the event has no political or other significance, it is an engagement TO BE married, ... A mere soap opera. The media is also full of news about Eva Longoria divorcing Parker, so what? It certainly doesn't have encyclopedic significance, and hence the strong opposition. I think '''it shouldn't have been posted.''' [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 22:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::Given he's Charles' first son its not really plausible that he won't become King. And his father is hardly young these days. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 22:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::My point exactly: he is likely to marry + he is likely to become king + after Charles likely becomes king ≠ Significant news. But then, it's only IMO. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 23:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Belated switch from oppose to '''Neutral'''.  Wow a lot of fireworks on this one.  I still don't like the substance of this one but there clearly is interest and global coverage (it stepped up a great deal since I commented on it above).  I do agree that once it was posted it should have stayed up.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 02:00, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Someone send this drama over to [[WP:Signpost|the Signpost]]'''. I think they would appreciate. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 05:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::i must say this was very ''clean'' drama. normally something this big leaves atleast few people with some long lasting emotional scars lol -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 05:43, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
: Huh, what a reaction. At least it seems that we have a clearer consensus now, so it's fine with me. I'll try my best not to interfere if I am involved in the discussion in future, otherwise ;-) --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 08:48, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::In defense I think Tone believed that there was clearly and uncontroversially a lack of consensus, and felt that it was ok to go against [[WP:UNINVOLVED]].  At least two editors later agreed with that.  This turned out to be wrong; however sometimes things can seem clear to one person and not so to another person.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Belated support''', for some reason a massive massive story across a considerable area (i.e. the Commonwealth). But holy shit guys. [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#660000;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 01:46, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:This has to be the longest and most drama-filled ITN/C discussion in years. I opposed, but bow to consensus and the bizarre worldwide fascination with our head toffs. <shrug> [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:54, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Viktor Bout]] extradited====
This story's of quite international interest ([http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11763221 BBC]; [http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/thailand-extradites-merchant-of-death-20101116-17vk9.html SMH]; [http://us.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/16/thailand.extradition/index.html CNN USA]; [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/world/asia/17thai.html?_r=1&hp NYT]; [http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/SEAsia/Story/STIStory_603850.html Straits Times]) and involves authorities in numerous jurisdictions (including the US and Russia). Also, this has dragged out over months, making the case even more in the public eye, so I think this would be quite a change from the usual ITN stuff. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 09:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*Suspected arms dealer '''[[Viktor Bout]]''' is extradited to the United States from [[Thailand]] after months of court battles between the U.S. and Russia.
*'''Oppose''' The extradication is a minor thing per [[WP:NOT#NEWS]]. Propose posting once (and if) he is convicted. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:17, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' One of the major news right now. Also a conflict between the US and Russia that is making it even more notable.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 23:23, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:Agree with strange passerby that this news would be a good change from the usual ITN news.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 16:21, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 15==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 15]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 15}}
{{cob}}
----
====Building collapse in [[New Delhi]]====
This seems to be appearing on more news sites by the day and there might be something to this; according to the NYT at least 64 are dead after a building collapsed in [[New Delhi]], [[India]]. I'm '''on the fence''' about this one: it's a significant death toll and the accident is said to have happened in ''New'' Delhi, the modernised area of the capital rather than elsewhere in Delhi; and we don't post collapses all that often. On the other hand, it's an unfortunate accident in an area with building codes that aren't well-enforced, and there isn't even an existing article on it. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:05, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:It's certainly very similar in notablilty to the [[2010 Shanghai fire]] currently on ITN.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''', once we have an article. Significant death toll and collapses of this magnitude are very rare. Let's start with an entry at [[List of structural failures and collapses]]. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::actually this has killed more people than shanghai fire... but there arent a whole lot of updates that can be made here -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 17:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Support'''. A lot dead. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 22:14, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::'''Support''' seems notable, India is under-mentioned on ITN too. Maybe the corruption scandal could be mentioned as well. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Interesting point that. We don't have a lot of India-related items on ITN, but it seems (to me at least) that its neighbour Pakistan gets a lot more coverage on ITN. I could be wrong, I don't have any statistics to hand. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:38, 19 November 2010 (UTC) 
: I started an article: [[Lalita Park building collapse]]. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:01, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. Significant death toll in a very notable city. I'm just worried about the news coverage. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 03:20, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support pending expansion'''. Significant incident, but the article is short. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 22:33, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Guinean presidential election, 2010]]====
Remember this one? Well, according to the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11762142 BBC] and [http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2010/11/15/97001-20101115FILWWW00750-alpha-conde-elu-president-en-guinee.php AFP], the winner is [[Alpha Condé]]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:35, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:<small>Note to Gamova fans: we have no images of Condé, so you can still have your favorite Russian volleyball player on the Main Page for a bit longer! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 22:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
:Well, they took their time. Sounds good to me, but the article needs updating (both with prose and a results table). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::I've only just finished cleaning it up [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guinean_presidential_election%2C_2010&action=historysubmit&diff=396986422&oldid=396718657]! There's a bit more in the news media now, so I should be able to do a prose update. Suggestions for a blurb would be welcome, as I'm having a bit of an inspiration failure on this one. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 22:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Alpha Condé]] '''[[Guinean presidential election, 2010|wins]]''' the [[Guinea]]n [[President of Guinea|presidential]] election, the first held since the [[2008 Guinean coup d'état|2008 coup d'état]]
:[[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' and a good blurb. First democratic president election in Guinea. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 23:17, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Posted''' --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 23:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''with 1 support are you serious? noteworthy enough already that toerh sovereign state elections werent posted?'''[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 02:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::This was also [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/November_2010#Guinean presidential election|discussed on the day of the election]], where there was consensus that it should go up once we knew the results. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Prior strong consensus (one oppose on the grounds of too many elections at one time, who switched to support this one), plus ITNR consensus, plus nominator, plus blurb suggestion, plus my agreement.  --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 03:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::An election is ITNR, which means it has consensus by default.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 04:14, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Exactly. The ''whole point'' of ITNR is to bypass the need for support/oppose !votes here. All that is required is a sufficient update. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:33, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Important''': The main significance of this event is arguably not the outcome, but rather that these were the country's first democratic elections ([http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11696566 BBC]). '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 09:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' agree with kslotte.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 16:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

====NASA announces black hole discovered in earth's vicinity====
Press conferance topic just announced. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 17:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_10-299_CHANDRA.html [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 17:44, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''[[SN 1979C]]''' I think this is the relevant article. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 17:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom - <font face="verdana">[[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#E32636">'''Eugεn'''</span>]][[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#333399">'''S¡m¡on'''</span>]][[User:Eugen Simion 14|<span style="color:#C90016">(14) ®</span>]]</font> 19:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. This is nowhere near the Earth, it's not even in the [[Local Group]]. The only 'new' thing about it is that the supernova went off recently enough for it to have been observed. <s>Also, as far as I can find no journal paper has been published, which is a minimum standard for science stories.</s> [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Having now read the paper, I'm reiterating my strong opposition. This a run-of-the-mill piece of astronomy research, of the type I read almost every day (I'm a professional astronomer). This has been hyped up by NASA for very little reason, and makes it seem like they couldn't find anything better for their PR. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:48, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
: So it is a black hole after all! Let's just put a [[:File:Malevich.black-square.jpg|black square]] as the image ;-) Support when the article is expanded and when we have a journal reference (seems interesting enough to me...). --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 19:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::<small>OMG, black hole, shall we all die? %) Strong support for the ''[[:File:Malevich.black-square.jpg|Black Square]]''! But please, keep Gamova for some time, while we are still enjoying life...</small> Well, weak support leaning to oppose. The article is too small, the notability of the event is not reflected in the current revision. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 19:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Comment''' according to ''[[:File:Chipdale47.jpg|my sources]]'', the black holes ARE in fact square... So, full support for the ''[[:File:Malevich.black-square.jpg|Black Square]]''! Regarding the news, it's just NASA looking for more attention (=budget). [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 22:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::i dont know if a published paper is required for this story. NASA's announcement should be good enough. what is interesting about this story is that this black hole could be 30 years old. what sucks is that its pretty far away and it may be a neutron star instead of black hole. but im leaning towards support if article gets any better -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 19:14, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::We have a published paper: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.newast.2010.09.004 [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:22, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Reading now, but since it's in New Astronomy (a minor, low-prestige astronomy journal, not even in the top 10, which we don't even have an article about) doesn't exactly fill me with anticipation. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:37, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' since a paper has been published, and there are multiple stories on Google News. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 19:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Grossly exaggerated event in my perception. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 21:41, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''No''' 50 million light years is not in the vicinity of earth.  This black hole is in another galaxy.  We have  very large black hole in the center of our own galaxy, among others.  The closest I've heard of is a mere 1,600 light years away.[http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2000/v4641/] [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 21:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:i think the heading to this nomination is misleading. This is ''not'' about the closest but rather the '''youngest''' black hole. NASA is not saying its close they are saying its the closest black hole this young. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 22:05, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::This is correct, but so what? There's nothing special about a ''young'' black hole. The only use that can be is that we saw the supernova that formed it. Whilst this ''might'' tell us something about supernovae, it tells us nothing about black holes. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::Meh.  Several or more gamma ray bursts are observed every day.  Each signifies the formation of a new black hole somewhere. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 22:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Quoting NASA's page above ''However, SN 1979C is different because it is much closer and belongs to a class of supernovas unlikely to be associated with a GRB. Theory predicts most black holes in the universe should form when the core of a star collapses and a GRB is not produced. "This may be the first time the common way of making a black hole has been observed," '' i can understand this still may not be ITN material but please reject it after finding out what the discovery is -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 22:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::"Discovery" is too strong a word for it: as I see it, it is useful additional data to refine models of this type of supernova. Worthy research, but not ITN. It doesn't seem as if the major news media have fallen for the NASA spin either. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:38, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::I agree that the heading is misleading (although I added it), but I based it solely on NASA's announcement of the press conference and then the topic screen for the press conference once that became available a couple of minutes before the conference began. So blame NASA for hyperbolizing this event. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 08:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', per Modest Genius. I'll take it from him that the discovery is not very notable, and I see his reasoning. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 02:38, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - Very cool, but not notable enough for main page. [[User:Derild4921|<span style="color:blue">Derild</span>]][[User talk:Derild4921|<span style="color:red">49</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Derild4921|<span style="color:green">21</span>]][[User:Derild4921/Guestbook|<span style="color:orange">☼</span>]] 03:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

====Shanghai fire====
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/15/china-shanghai-apartment-fire Shanghai fire leaves at least 42 dead]. Article required. Death toll is pretty big. [[2010 Shanghai fire]] - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 17:11, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:I just started [[2010 Shanghai high-rise fire]].  We'll need some time to expand the article.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:21, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::Oops, there's two articles on it now.  Which one should we develop?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:23, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::A redirect required. :P. So I think the name of the article is simple 2010 Shanghai fire, not high-rise fire. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 17:25, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm easy, but I would say that there are surely many fires in Shanghai every year, so perhaps a slightly more precise title is useful, or maybe not.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::2010 Shanghai apartment fire maybe. But wait. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 17:33, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Dozens killed, more injured; title should be 2010 Shanghai fire (as it is now) because there's no reason to be more specific if we have no other articles on other fires (per [[WP:MOS|MOS]]). <span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;">'''/[[User:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">ƒETCH</span>]][[User talk:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">COMMS</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Fetchcomms|<span style="color:#000;">/</span>]]'''</span> 18:00, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' seems to be rare with these type of extent fires. Only a few per year. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Posted''' --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 22:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', belatedly, but shouldn't admins be waiting for firmer agreement or consensus before posting something that's not on [[WP:ITNR]]? I can understand the Guinean election but this should have waited for a wider consensus imo. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 00:44, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I agree. Two or three comments is fine for an ITNR event (whose significance is already established), but there needs to be more than two support !votes before non-ITNR events go up. Btw, I'm '''neutral''' on this particular item. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:53, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Update''': 49 people killed. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 01:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:The nominator, plus article creator, plus two supports, plus my agreement makes five in (albeit partially assumed) agreement over five hours.  --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 01:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::Sorry, I don't buy that. Very rarely do we just jump to posting new entries after just, as you said, "five hours". Even with a massive consensus in support, it can take time. I don't believe there was enough time for any opposition to be made known at all, given these can often take up to two days. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 09:34, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You can't count the nominator and yourself as votes. The posting administrator is supposed to wait for consensus, not form the consensus themself by casting a !vote (and then not even recording it here). Traditionally the nominator has not been counted either. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:37, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Deatholl at 53''' [http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-11/16/c_13608737.htm Xinhua] [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 02:10, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::For the record I was not supporting or opposing.  I created an article, which at the time I felt might become notable enough to support as the story developed.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
* The posting seems to be reverted, because of an AfD. Let's wait until the AfD resolves. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::It was pulled from the template by the same admin who started the AfD. That seems like something of a conflict of interest to me. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't think so. Per [[WP:SK#Procedural closure]], articles on the Main Page cannot be AFD'd unless unlinked (and since this isn't possible for ITN, removed). If the admin – as an editor – wants to AFD the thing, it seems perfectly fine to me that he as an admin would do the admin thing necessary. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::The intention of that rule is that articles should not be taken to AfD until they've cycled off the Main Page. This idea is that people ''wait'' until it wouldn't be a problem before starting the AfD. If there's a problem that's so bad it merits immediate removal, it should be brought up at [[WP:ERRORS]], where a quick discussion can be held - if the problem is really that bad it won't take long. Directly removing an item in order that an AfD could be started seems like gaming the system (especially since it was done with no discussion, or even notification). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:05, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Agree, that seems a particularly despicable form of "drive-by adminning" to me. We've seen it before with people tagging articles with orange cleanup tags just to push their own PoV. If it wasn't so late in Europe at the moment, I'd kick up a fuss about it. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:13, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Not only did this have full support here but there seems to be almost unanimous keep support at AfD too (for fairly obvious reasons). Its fairly annoying when an admin decides they can edit the main page however they like just because they have been given the power to do so. If they felt like it needed an AfD then it should have been on talk page first. or atleast bother to come down here to see that it went up there for a reason. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 01:37, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::::::}}
I'm not assuming bad [[WP:FAITH]] of [[User:Shirik]] but, if the criteria of [[WP:SK#Applicability]] cannot be applied to such a case, or applied as "If an article will be AfD'ed, the related news ''must'' be removed from ITN", we find a new, simple and effective way to pull anything out of the [[WP:ITN]] without a deep discussion at [[WP:ERRORS]]. If someone wants to pull a news out there, just have the article AfD'd (the AfD may be very [[WP:SNOW]]) and request admins to remove the news due to the AfD. If he is an admin, it would be easier, he can directly remove the news, and his reason for removing is his AfD. So [[WP:SK#Applicability]] should be more clear to indicate that a procedure of discussion at [[WP:ERRORS]] is obligatory. --[[User:Tomchen1989|Tomchen1989]] ([[User talk:Tomchen1989|talk]]) 03:18, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
* Now death toll at 79 and 36 missing. Someone close the [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2010 Shanghai fire|AfD]] and re-add it to the ITN? Obviously a consensus for keep or a SK. --[[User:Tomchen1989|Tomchen1989]] ([[User talk:Tomchen1989|talk]]) 15:47, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
** AfD is closed. It is time to post. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 20:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
***'''Agree''', let's get this back up. I was never a great fan of the story, but it's passed and so should be up on the Main Page. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:59, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It's on [[WP:ERRORS]] - far too much [[WP:BUREAUCRACY]] for my liking on this one :(. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 21:15, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Update''', Still 53 deaths claimed by [http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-11/17/c_13611007.htm xinhua] (See discussion [[Talk:2010 Shanghai fire#Still 53 deaths]]), 36 missing, more than 100 injured. Posted to [[WP:ERRORS#2010 Shanghai fire]]. --[[User:Tomchen1989|Tomchen1989]] ([[User talk:Tomchen1989|talk]]) 17:48, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Mexico]] resort explosion====
Six people including one minor were killed in a natural gas explosion at a resort in [[Playa del Carmen]], [[Mexico]]. [http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/11/14/mexico.hotel.explosion/index.html CNN] --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Unfortunate incident, but NOTNEWS applies here. I doubt any article on it would survive AfD. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 12:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::Im sorry for all this mess, but im a fresher here. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 15:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::No worries, We Believe you are acting in [[WP:AGF|Good Faith]]. You're learning the ropes we are deal with more boneheaded noms with much more [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|experienced editors]]. ;-) [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 16:34, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure [[WP:NOTNEWS]] is a valid objection for [[Wikipedia:In the news|Wikipedia in the]] '''news'''.  AfD isn't necessarily an issue; ITN entries are often linked to sections of larger articles.  But this probably isn't big enough news.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', minor disaster, there were probably many car crashes just in Mexico on the same day which killed more people than this. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Four Canadians killed in the blast, so it hits hard for me, but it's not notable enough for ITN. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 02:33, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

====Qantas grounds another [[Boeing 747]]====
Another [[Qantas Airways]] flight carrying 199 passengers was forced to turn back to Sydney, Australia because of an electrical problem. [http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/15/australia.qantas.emergency.landing/index.html CNN] --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:With all due respect, not every single story on CNN is ITN-able, let's not waste time. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 12:57, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' How long until this has its own article? '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 15:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::Mre to the point, how long would the article survive before an AfD nomination? Minutes? Hours, maybe? [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::For your very kind information and with no disrespect intended, '''I haven't created any article like Qantas grounds another Boeing 747 and you guys are talking about deleting it!!!'''. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 15:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Woah Nelly!!  No disrespect was intended I'm sure.  But in order for an item to be posted to ITN, either a new article (which is suitably notable) has to be created, or an existing article has to have content added.  Plenty of ITN entries are linked to sections of pre-existing articles.  However, it does appear unlikely that either of those criteria will be met here.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''', non-event with no article. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Southern Sudanese independence referendum, 2011|2011 Southern Sudanese independence referendum]]====
Voter registration begins in Sudan for a referendum on 9 January 2011 to decide whether or not Southern Sudan should remain as a part of [[Sudan]] or secede.<sup>[[http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/11/15/sudan.referendum/index.html 1]]</sup> --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 10:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Come on, voter registration?! Not something we should be wasting ITN inches on. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 12:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:Why not!!?? the Sudan Independence referendum will soon be a pressing issue. Who cover it right from now??? --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from the fact it would violate [[WP:NOTNEWS]]? The referendum and elections, when they happen, will be notable and easily pass. Simple voter registration, definitely not. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 12:15, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Okay! --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:19, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' for now. May be ITN-worty if and when Southern Sudan gets independence. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 14:46, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:Alright, lets see what will happen in the future. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 15:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. Try again when the referendum actually happens. Registering voters is not a story. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''', extremely minor event. The election might warrant a blurb, but voter registration is multiple orders of magnitude away from that level of importance. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 19:55, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per above. The referendum itself will obviously be notable. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:42, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Haiti cholera outbreak]]====
The death toll has soared to [http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/11/20101114153515676688.html 917]: "international organisations appeal for funds to fight epidemic". --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 04:42, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:Not on topic: where did the previous donations go? [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 05:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:We've already had this on ITN. [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Template%3AIn_the_news&action=historysubmit&diff=395288745&oldid=395271383]. --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 05:19, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' This cholera outbreak thing must have been covered by the Hurricane Tomas blurb. So we dont actually need an extra blurb. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 09:22, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose'''. When we last had it on ITN, just a few days ago, our readers simply weren't interested in reading an article on the outbreak ([http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/2010_Haiti_cholera_outbreak stats]). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 13:16, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::: The stats is inaccurate because of article name changes. Anyway, '''oppose''' because the article have already been on ITN. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 14:40, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::My bad, I didn't notice the name change as the names are so similar. However, [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/2010%20Haitian%20cholera%20outbreak stats on the previous name] are hardly glorious either. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I dunno, an average of just over 5k per day isn't bad. DYK consider 5k such an achievement that they keep a record of it. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Though saying that.... [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/Manny_Pacquiao] [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Woah. Apparently people actually ''like'' boxing! This surprises me. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:15, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Of course. The [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/December 2008#ITN candidates for December 6|laughingly ITN rejected]] and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Dream Match|almost deleted]] Pacquiao-Dela Hoya match [http://stats.grok.se/en/200812/Manny_Pacquiao got a ton of more hits] despite not being on the Main Page than the [http://stats.grok.se/en/200806/UEFA%20Euro%202008 UEFA Euro 2008]! Of course European sport made it that year. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 04:35, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::BTW, [[UFC 122]] done on the same day, also had massive [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/UFC%20122 view stats].  This, of course [http://stats.grok.se/en/201010/UFC%20121 did not beat] [[UFC 121]] when [[Brock Lesnar]] lost the heavyweight championship. If we add infinitesimal events such as hurling and snooker (heck even darts was suggested before), why are we ignoring these boxing and MMA? &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 07:14, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::5k hits/day is in the lowest 10% of ITN stories in terms of click-through rate. We put it up with the best of intentions, but the readers didn't go for it. Maybe they're bored of Haiti stories, or maybe they just thought there wasn't anything else they wanted to learn about this particular cholera outbreak. Either way, it's pretty pointless giving them more of the same! <small>let's leave that to DYK and their series of cookie-cutter articles on Croatian road tunnels and the like!</small> [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Conditional support''' once the toll reaches 1,000+. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 01:15, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' as its already been on [[WP:ITN]]. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 07:37, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Iraq election#Government_formation]]====
apparently wasnt posted at the time of the official results (even though most election get posted on result date). But a govt. is formed now after over 6 months (a global record (but i forget the source thereof)). certainly has more than some global signifiance, amd was previously cited as a reason for so much instability for which weve posted seeral bombings since. (We know now that the next big bombing since the govt will also have importance enough to post) [[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 00:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Not yet'''. It seems a bit premature for the moment, judging from this [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11750780 BBC article]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:49, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::understand your concern, but the walkout seems to have happened ''after'' agreement [[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 00:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::But before formal nomination or parliamentary approval. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:56, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Not yet'''. I agree with [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]], it is not widely covered in the news. And it is too soon to post something like that. Let's wait. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 10:30, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 14==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 14]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 14}}
{{cob}}
----

====NASA's Chandra News Conference====
Yes, I know that this is crystal balling, but they say that the conference is '' to discuss the Chandra X-ray Observatory's discovery of an '''exceptional object in our cosmic neighborhood'''''; so unless this is a PR stunt, this has a slight chance to be ''really'' big news. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 19:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_M10-157_Chandra_Update.html

*'''Support if and only if''' this gets wide coverage in the media, and it is perceived by the media to be a big discovery. For all I know, NASA may hype things up like this all the time; but the press release does seem to imply this will be a newsworthy discovery. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 19:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::If it is a [[brown dwarf]] satellite of the Sun, or a nearby [[black hole]], news agencies will pick it up. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 19:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose''' until any discovery is published in a peer-reviewed journal. NASA has a long track record of "hyping things up like this" (and they're not the only ones!). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose due to insufficient information''' Seeing how vague the press release is, I can't comment until we know something concrete. This could be something big or something a that will only matter to a few astrophysicists. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 19:43, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*Just to clarify: I meant this nom, only iff something interesting is announced. I did not mean to nominate the announcement for the conference to go up ITN before it happens, but only what is announced iff is interesting enough. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]])
*'''Support if and only if'''. I agree with the nominator. Let's build up some enthusiasm for this one :-) __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 22:28, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support pending results following conference'''. Seems interesting. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 03:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', renominate once there's actually something to look at. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 09:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:This is presumably the black hole nominated above? As a procedural point, it would be best to wait until there's some idea of what the announcement actually is before nominating here. There's no way anyone can tell if it's significant or not based on hype and no actual information. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:16, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]]. NASA is notorious for overhyping things like this. [[User:Offliner|Offliner]] ([[User talk:Offliner|talk]]) 21:53, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Robin Söderling]]====
Swedens [[Robin Söderling]] wins his first [[ATP World Tour Masters 1000|Masters 1000 event]] title, at the [[2010 BNP Paribas Masters|2010 Paris Masters]] by beating [[French]] player [[Gael Monfils]].--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 17:23, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' not one of the four majors. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  17:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''.  The four [[Grand Slam (tennis)]] events are more than enough tennis for ITN.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:10, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*What Johnsemlak and we have too much sport on ITN already. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. I fail to see why this is any more important than any other tour event. We post the tennis majors, none of the other tour events. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:22, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Women's Volleyball World Championship]]====
[[File:Ekaterina Gamova 3 ITN.jpg|right|100px]]
[[Russia]] defends its champion title at the [[2010 Women's Volleyball World Championship]] in [[Japan]], with [[Yekaterina Gamova]] becoming the tournament [[Most Valuable Player|MVP]]. [http://www.fivb.org/EN/Volleyball/Competitions/WorldChampionships/2010/Women/viewPressRelease.asp?No=27084&Language=en FIBV] [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 14:04, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' though I fear this item will be crowded out by a number of other sports items, with two currently on the template and a 3rd probably on the way.  As I have noted elsewhere this is a quadrennial competition and we rarely if ever post volleyball news, and it is a fairly notable team sport.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm not overly enthusiastic about this. We've already got the Asian Games on ITN, plus F1 and boxing that went up today. That's a ''lot'' of sport fir a section not dedicated to sport. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  15:21, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, if a number of ITN-worthy sporting events coincide in time, does this really mean that some of them should not be included? Not so long ago almost the whole of the ITN box consisted of the reports on Nobel Prizes, for example, and sometimes there are too many deaths. That happens. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]]
: '''<s>Strong</s> oppose''' at the moment. The reason for strong is that there is no prose in the article, apart from the two-sentence introduction. And yes, there are three sport items on ITN at the moment and I believe all of them drew wider attention than this event. '''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 15:23, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Ok, I am happy with the prose update. Let's say '''neutral''' now. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 18:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::Wider attention varies regionally in this case. 2010 Women's Volleyball World Championship is among the top news in Russia, Brazil and Japan at the moment, while the Asian Games are virtually unnoticed in Russia and Brazil, for example. As for the prose in the article, I may look to that a bit later. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 15:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Concur with Greyhood, volleyball gets a fair bit of attention in many countries.  The article can easily be improved.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:16, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Note'''. The article's prose has been expanded by Johnsemlak and me, the blurb has been modified, and a picture proposed. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 17:40, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' the FIBA Women's championship wasn't posted last month ([[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/October_2010#2010 FIBA World Championship for Women Final|discussion]]), no indication of why this is more important. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  17:52, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::But the woman's MVP is much hotter than the MVP from the men's tournament. :-D--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, that's a towering argument ;) [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 18:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::As far as I see, the FIBA Women's nomination received equal support and oppose last time, and one of the strongest arguments was that the event is not on the [[WP:ITNR]] and that there are more important basketball events. In the present case, I have to confirm that strangely there is no Volleyball on the [[WP:ITNR]] at all, despite the fact that even such things as the [[All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship]] were given some place there %). In such a context, I can just concur with Johnsemlak and propose that volleyball also has to be reported sometimes, at least in order to keep some relevant balance between the international sports on the ITN (see Modest Genius on the old FIBA discussion). And I can't say that women's voleyball is so much less popular compared to men's, as in the case of basketball with its obvious gender gap in attention. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 18:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
In order to avoid overloading the template with sports news, I suggest adding this and removing the Asian Games, which is the lowest sports item currently on the template.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong support''' female sports are typically underrepresented in the ITN. Volleyball of all sports is probably by far more popular for females than males. Even though one might argue that the pro might not attract as many viewers worldwide, the amateur sport is the most practiced sport worldwide (more people play volleyball than soccer at amateur level). [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''' per Nergaal, people are always keen to put stuff up which hasn't seen extensive coverage in the western media, this seems similar. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 19:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted''' and Asian Games removed per the suggestion above. I'll add the MVP a little later. She's ''much'' easier on the eyes than Vettel, but he hasn't been up long and we don;t know when we'll next have a usable image. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:21, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**I just hope there will be no picture of a nearby [[black hole]] from NASA tomorrow ;) [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Technically, there can be ''no'' picture of the black hole... ;-) --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 20:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
****Hopes come true! %) [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
****Technically I think you can see the glow from a black hole by X-rays and Gamma-rays. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*****Oh no.. I remember the picture of myself in X-rays, and it wasn't pleasant. And X-rayed black hole definitely sounds fearsome. %) [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
****** Yes, or the accretion disc or things like that but that's not the black hole itself... Anyway, this does not have much to do with the volleyball :D --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 21:28, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Post-post oppose'''. Minor sport, with little media coverage. An even bigger problem is the article, which consists of just 2 paragraphs of prose, plus a load of tables. This went up when the !vote was 3.5 to 2, hardly consensus (now of course 3.5 to 3). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Formula One season]] ends====
Is on [[WP:ITN/R]], but just for formalities' sake, the F1 season ends with the [[2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix|final race]] in [[Abu Dhabi]] today. The 2010 champion will also be decided in the next three hours; we'll know whether [[Sebastian Vettel]] or [[Mark Webber]] have won their first title or [[Fernando Alonso]] or [[Lewis Hamilton]] have regained the crown. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:Oh, and per [[WP:ITN/R]], a mention should also probably be made in the final blurb that [[Red Bull Racing]] won the constructors' title. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:42, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::The article's in reasonable shape, so it just needs to be updated with the winner when the race ends. Meanwhile, I'm open to blurb suggestions. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::"'''[[Sebastian Vettel]]''' becomes the youngest ever Formula One world champion, winning the [[2010 Formula One season]]..." [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 14:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you, Rambling Man, '''posted''' (ITNR). [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  15:08, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Could I suggest we put back the picture of Suu Kyi?  I'm normally in favor of having the photo match the nearest item on the template, but frankly, the F1 winner's significance pales in comparison to her release.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

====Death of [[Luis García Berlanga]]====
*"One of the giants of Spanish cinema" who was "considered a 'classic' of Spanish cinema and won several prestigious awards during his career" [http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jp1OMu_5Cw5qQMHcG2aTKwIOq5hw?docId=CNG.01534870f08f534eb4cceded9fefdceb.81 (AFP)].
*''[[El País]]'' - "With Luis Garcia Berlanga dies a style, a voice, the vision of a country, a culture and a philosophy on the human race".
*Prime Minister [[José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero]] - "one of the great film-makers of Spanish culture".
*Culture Minister [[Ángeles González-Sinde]] - "The work of Luis Garcia Berlanga remains the same as that of any other past master of literature, painting or music of this country".
*[http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5g4zBaabyZtqoZzhAHaknyNfx2Gjg?docId=5121523 Canadian Press] - "Critical of the military dictatorship under Gen. [[Francisco Franco]] [...] credited with helping to revive the country's movie industry after its [[Spanish Civil War|civil war]]".
*[http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=377302&CategoryId=13003 ''The Latin American Herald Tribune''] says he made a public appearance as recently as May and that his awards include the National Cinema Prize (1981), Fine Arts Gold Medal (1983), [[Prince of Asturias Awards#Arts|Prince of Asturias Prize for the Arts]] (1986). The Wikipedia article says also mentions awards at [[Cannes Film Festival]], International Film Festival of Valencia, [[Montreal World Film Festival]] and [[Berlin Film Festival]], as well as the [[Goya awards|Goya]] for best director ("the Spanish equivalent to the Academy Awards"). --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 04:14, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. What is all this?? Something this huge cannot be posted at once, make everything clear. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 08:11, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::Wikipedia does not seem to have considered him very important: his article at the time of his death consisted of 14 lines of prose, plus a list of films. And even the es.wiki equivalent consisted of rather less.  If he was not of high enough profile 2 days ago for there to have been demand for a more comprehensive article, he is not of high enough profile today for ITN, so '''oppose'''. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 11:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose''' as per Kevin McE.  Even now the article has only one reference.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 11:43, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 13==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 13]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 13}}
{{cob}}
----
====[[Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito]]====
[[File:Manny Pacquiao in Siliman.jpg|right|75px]]
Boxing match for the WBC Super Welterweight Championship: if Pacquiao wins, he'd be the first [[Octuple champion]] (the article doesn't even exist yet); if Margarito wins he beat the only universally-recognized [[Septuple champion]] in history. In either case, what ever happens there'll be a world record broken. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 03:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' either way, it's the biggest fight of the year. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  05:10, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**You'd know it's ITN-able when you see [[Nelly]] perform at a sporting event. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 05:17, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**[[Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito]] article will take a long time to clean up, so I'd use the [[Manny Pacquiao]] article instead. Blurb:
**:[[Philippines|Filipino]] [[boxing|boxer]] '''[[Manny Pacquiao]]''' [[Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito|defeats]] [[United States|American]] [[Antonio Margarito]] to win the [[World Boxing Council]] [[super welterweight]] championship, his tenth championship in eight [[Weight class (boxing)|weight divisions]].
**&ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 05:50, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Manny Pacquiao]] article is '''ready''' now. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 06:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' 
::'''[[Manny Pacquiao]]''' became the first [[boxer]] to become a [[octuple champion]] by [[Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito|defeating]] [[Antonio Margarito]].
:::Pacquiao beats Margarito in dominating performance ([http://www.cbssports.com/boxing/story/14292161/pacquiao-beats-margarito-in-dominating-performance CBS Sports])
::::Our ITN friends are slightly allergic for U.S.-centric news sources. Here are European links: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/9187638.stm BBC] and [http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/portfolio/2010/11/12/boxe-le-depute-pacquiao-a-la-conquete-d-un-huitieme-titre-mondial_1438952_3242.html Le Monde]. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 07:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::[http://news.yandex.ru/yandsearch?cl4url=www.championat.ru/boxing/news-651930.html&cat=438&lang=ru Russian source], though I should point out that the Russian media is also reporting the [[David Haye]] heavyweight victory, as is the BBC.  Perhaps we could report both fights in one blurb?  The Haye fight isn't such a unique achievement but it was a heavyweight title fight.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:I Guess it is better for DYK. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 07:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''' obviously a notable achievement and the match seems notable too. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Support'''.  Boxing is still a very popular sport worldwide and Pacquiao is one its more popular stars.  The only thing that could be bigger than this would be the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight, whenever that happens.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:17, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

====Resignation of the French Prime Minister====
[[François Fillon]] has resigned today. If he is not reappointed, I think that a new [[Prime Minister of France]] should make ITN. [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 19:38, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes for the new Prime Minister, no for the resignation on its own. France has a presidential system, so the Prime Minister is under the orders of the President. Fillon won't be reappointed, this has been trailed for months. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Indeed, the most likely outcome is that he is reappointed. That's why I wrote "If he is not reappointed..." [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 20:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', standard Cabinet reshuffle by Nicolas Sarkozy and not notable unless (even if?) a new Prime Minister is chosen. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 01:34, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Fillon has been reappointed, so this is just a standard cabnet reshuffle. Not the sort of thing we usually post. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 13:30, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

====Aung San Suu Kyi====
[[File:Burma 3 150.jpg|80px|right]]
[[Aung San Suu Kyi]] is released from house arrest in Burma. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 11:14, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Strong support''' Extremely notable event in Burma and around the world. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 11:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
: Pending some more update and a reference, then ready to post. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 11:37, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Note: Consensus to post already reached [[#Burmese govt to release ASSK|below]] under [[#November 12|November 12]]. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 11:39, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Release referenced. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 11:43, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I believe there should be more of an update.  Multiple references and a full paragraph at least is the general requirement as per the [[Wikipedia:In_the_news#Updated_content|criteria]].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' Yes and it is kind of a revolution. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
: Posted. The update meets minimal requirements and the article will be expanded further, no doubt. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 12:27, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Post-post support'''. This is quite a great moment for Myanmar, and I'm glad it finally took place. Let's hope she's not ousted back into house arrest, for goodness' sake. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 02:56, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[2010 Thai floods]] ====
A series of flash floods that hit various areas in Thailand killing 215 people causing a damage of at least US$1.676 billion. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 10:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:As the Colombo article below, this is essentially covered by the Jal article already. Maybe that blurb could be expanded to take in these local effects. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 10:31, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::The entry below is not related to Cyclone Jal in any way. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 11:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The Jal article only gives a breif of both colombo and this. The main article coveres everything about the flooding in thailand. Just as the colombo article, this article too is not related to Cyclone Jal in any way. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Quite a bold claim when the article itself notes the floods were caused by a tropical depression (which eventually became Jal). How is that "not related"?! '''Oppose''' on its own; '''support''' as part of an enhanced Jal blurb. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:22, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::The southern Thailand floods were caused by Jal's precursors, not the northern. I was quite foolish to say "This article too is not related to Cyclone Jal in any way". --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:36, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could combined all the floods into a single blurb unrelated to Jal: "[[Flood]]s across [[Asia]] in '''[[2010 north Malaysian floods|Malaysia]]''', '''[[2010 Thai floods|Thailand]]''' and '''[[2010 Colombo floods|Sri Lanka]]''' kill at least 200 people and cause billions of [[U.S. dollar|dollars]] worth of damage." Personally, still unsure (and still opposed to the Sri Lanka one) at the moment. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:44, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:So, lets forget about Sri Lanka floods and try to post the Malay and Thai flood article on the ITN. Agree? --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 13:05, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support merge''' with Cyclone Jal blurb and [[2010 north Malaysian floods]]. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 15:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:Okay, so do it please. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 07:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[2010 Colombo floods]] ====
Massive floods took place from about 19:00 on the 10th, to 11:00 on the 11th in [[Colombo]]. I just found the above article, and is quite a significant event; [http://www.sundaytimes.lk/latest/1773-floods-hit-colombo-services-interrupted highest rainfall in 18 years], according to the Sri Lanka Meteorological Department. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 02:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', article reads like [[WP:OR|original research]] and has no inline sources. Besides, if this is linked to [[Cyclone Jal]] as the article suggests, it's already in the template and I'd oppose a separate mention. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 02:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::While I agree that the article is a mess, I think it is a significant entry. Perhaps we could fix the article now (I can do it)? The floods has nothing to do with [[Cyclone Jal]], which dissipated way back on the 8th over western India, far from Sri Lanka. [http://news.google.com/news/search?q=Sri+Lanka+floods Google up] "Sri Lanka floods" and see what I mean. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 02:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Update'': Working on the article now. All help is welcomed. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 03:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Update'': Cleaned the article. It should probably be alright to put up now. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 04:52, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. It is too short for ITN --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 10:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Where does it say that article size matters for ITN? [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 11:21, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::We don't put stubs on the Main Page, I thought that was an unwritten rule. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 11:52, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I have removed the old stub tag. I have added it when I first saw that page (and forgot to remove after performing updates). The article is now no longer a stub. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 11:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Stubs aren't judged by the existence of a stub tag on the article. For example, [[WP:DYK]] considers anything less than 1,500 characters (minus headings, infoboxes, references etc) as a stub. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::I removed the stub tag per [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment#Grades]]. It may also qualify as a C-Class given the info with sources. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 12:33, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Uh... I think, looking at [[WP:METEO]] (which I suspect this would fall under), it's nowhere close. But we're digressing. It's not long or detailed enough for ITN yet imo. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 12:37, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Hmm. I'll give a shot in expanding further tomorrow, and probably try adding images too. All help is welcomed. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 14:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Support merge''' with Jal blurb. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 15:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::But the thing is Jal has nothing to do with this... [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 15:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Update''': Expanded article; now has sufficient information with many reliable local and foreign sources. I think its now good to go. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 08:52, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

::'''Oppose''' alone; '''conditional support''' if posted as a wider Asia-wide floods blurb (as suggested above under Thailand). [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 09:17, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I guess that would be fine. My main point which I think it qualifies ITN is because it dropped {{Convert|490|mm|in|1|abbr=on}} in less than 24hrs, the highest in 18yrs; I personally think thats a significant event. But as a side note, this has nothing to do with any of the other flood incidents or Cyclone Jal, so I don't know how far it would fit as one entry. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 09:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

::'''Comment'''. Have any casualties occurred in Sri Lanka? Recent flooding in the past few months in Vietnam have killed close to 200 people, and that was not posted on ITN. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 17:45, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Just one. But if you ITNers think its not a good entry, then I'd withdraw. ;) I thought it would be a nice entry per the record rainfall. Can't find any more stuff to put in the article... Kind regards. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 02:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

::::I am sorry if you felt sad about not being approved after a long discussion. But i still feel that it shouldnt be posted. It is a less than one day flooding and with only one fatality, it is not very much important as such flash floodings are very common and when it comes to record rainfall, it is very closely related to Cyclone Jal. --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 10:35, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

:::::Uh well, thanks. But I did not exactly felt "sad" as such. Its just that I felt it might be a good entry at ITN. Community consensus is community consensus. I have no problem with, as with any part of Wikipedia. [[User:Rehman|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">Reh</span></b>]][[User talk:Rehman|<span style="color:green">man</span>]] 11:11, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

:A question to administrators: So have we come up with a decision yet? --[[User:Anikingos|Anirudh Emani]] ([[User talk:Anikingos|talk]]) 12:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 12==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 12]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 12}}
{{cob}}
----
====Death of [[Henryk Górecki]]====
[[File:Henryk Mikołaj Górecki Polish composer.jpg|100x100px|right]]
*[[Classical music|Classical]] [[composer]] [[Henryk Górecki]] dies aged 76
:One of the most significant modern composers, is attracting media attention and the article seems pretty good. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11741555 BBC]. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 14:17, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' – I was just coming over to nominate this! From the article lead: "his Third Symphony, ''[[Symphony No. 3 (Górecki)|Symphony of Sorrowful Songs]]'' […] became a worldwide commercial and critical success, selling more than a million copies and vastly exceeding the typical lifetime sales of a recording of symphonic music by a 20th-century composer." ''[[Symphony No. 3 (Górecki)|Symphony of Sorrowful Songs]]'' is a featured article. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:05, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
{{Adminnote}} The article itself seems well-maintained. It lacks information on his death, though. Ideally, we'd have a "Death" section or subsection with the how where when etc and some reaction. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:13, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:The article gives useful background to the event, so I support regardless. We're not here to hand out [[Smarties]] when we think someone's worked hard enough, but to publicize decent encyclopedic articles about events that are "in the news". Obviously any addition of relevant reaction to his death would be welcome, but shouldn't be a precondition of posting. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 17:29, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well that's kind of the purpose of ITN. What's the point of having a blurb on the Main Page about an event that isn't covered in the article. I don't even see a line that says he died, just a date of death in the lead. While normally I wouldn't disagree with you on such things, if a death is significant, the material will not be difficult to find. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry, I know we disagree (subtly, not seriously) on that point: in any case, it could do with another support or two before posting. I've added what I could get from the BBC, and done some tense-changing. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 18:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. I was just going to nominate this after reading the detailed and informative article. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 18:17, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' (this is Diego Grez, not logged in due to security concerns.) Good story. <small>[[Special:Contributions/200.111.98.60|200.111.98.60]] ([[User talk:200.111.98.60|talk]]) 18:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</small> [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 20:56, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' and I agree with Physchim62. He's in the news now because he died, but what he accomplished during his lifetime is actually more important. — [[User:Kpalion|Kpalion]]<sup>[[User talk:Kpalion|(talk)]]</sup> 19:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
** '''ALT1''': [[Classical music|Classical]] [[composer]] [[Henryk Górecki]], best known for his ''[[Symphony No. 3 (Górecki)|Symphony of Sorrowful Songs]]'', dies aged 76. — This way we can include a link to a featured article. — [[User:Kpalion|Kpalion]]<sup>[[User talk:Kpalion|(talk)]]</sup> 20:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:He's in the news because he died, so it's usually helpful for the relevant article to say more than "he died". There is currently no update sufficient for ITN criteria and, while I'm not going to be such a policy wonk as to require reams of eloquent prose, something more than a repetition of the blurb is necessary. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:56, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::His death is in the news because he was an extremely popular classical composer, and the article discusses that point admirably. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you there. ;) Rightly or wrongly, though, a sentence that imparts little more than "he died" is not considered a sufficient update for ITN. Indeed, [[WP:ITN]] explicitly says "''Changes in verb tense (e.g. "is" → "was") or updates that convey little or no new information beyond what is stated in the In the news blurb are insufficient.''" [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:11, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I know that's what WP:ITN says ;) and the sentence is poorly worded. We both agree that the article covers a whole host of background information about the news story: I would say that it barely has to be updated, because the information was already there. It is not the same situation as, say, a bomb blast in Baghdad where we have to assemble the information and write an article from scratch; in those cases, we rightly insist that the article contains sufficent background information (apart from that in in the blurb) to make it worth readers' while clicking on the link (and so not to disappoint them when they do). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:21, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[WP:NOTAVOTE]]. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:21, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:I have expanded the Death section. Sorry I didn't do so earlier, I was at the pub... [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>Glad too see you've got your priorities right! Beer first, dead Polish composers somewhat later ;) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>... listening to his third symphony at high volume to finish (once this has been posted). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
*'''Posted'''. I'll sort the image out in a bit, but the Jal image has only had a few hours so there's no rush. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:55, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

====Burmese govt to release ASSK====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11740798 BBC News]: "Reports are coming out of Burma saying the military authorities have signed an order authorising the release of pro-democracy leader [[Aung San Suu Kyi]]."

Now, her detention term expires tomorrow, so we may want to hold off until tomorrow when it's up and she's released (or detained afresh), but it's definitely ITN-worthy imo. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:04, 13 November 2010 (UTC)Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 10:54, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Wait and See''' Lets wait and see if they actually follow through. I am personally rather skeptical.   Also note the article says "Suu Kyi is not expected to accept a conditional release if it excludes her from political activity." Lets see how it shakes out [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well, her detention expires tomorrow, so even if they ''don't'' release her, it would still be ITN worthy imo (except that in that case we'd be putting up a blurb about a fresh detention). [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 14:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I am unsure about merely reporting a Political Prisoner continuation of the last ten years of Status quo. If she is realeased I'll give a strong support if she merely has her imprisonment extended I cannot really support that. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:52, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' if released. Neutral otherwise. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  14:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''obvious support''' if released. it'll be big news even if shes not released. so support either way. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 15:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well it could be a while before we know for certain, but apparently her release papers have been signed by The Powers That Be. I'm not sure it would be ITN-worthy if she simply isn't released. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:44, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' if released. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 18:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' even if not released its still major news. --[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 18:21, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', if and when she is released. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:55, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:And she's out! '''Support'''. Now we just need an updated article... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 11:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

*Blurb for when the article is updated: '''[[Aung San Suu Kyi]]''' is released from [[house arrest]] in [[Burma]] after seven years in detention. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 11:47, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong Support''' when article is expanded further.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:04, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Asian Games]]====
Starts today. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 11:08, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per [[WP:ITN/R]]. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 11:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*Suggested blurb: The '''[[2010 Asian Games]]''', the first held in [[China]] for 20 years, open in [[Guangzhou]]. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 11:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Change 20 years to two decades. In any case, it should be 'twenty' instead of 20. Also, consider mentioning that the Asian Games is the world's second largest sports event ([http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS384489247920101112 Reuters]) after the Olympics. [[User:AngChenrui|A<small>NG</small>]][[User talk:AngChenrui|C<small>HENRUI</small>]] <sub>[[WP:MSE]]</sub>[[User:AngChenrui/BS|♨]] 02:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' But it s hardly worth noting that a competition that only happens every four years with 45 nations participating has held the last four editions somewhere other than the PRC.  [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 12:04, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
{{Adminnote}} Can someone determine whether that {{tl|cleanup}} tag is justified and either fix the article or burn that uselessly vague tag with fire? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:Could do with some cleanup, yeah. Lots of bits of ungrammatical English and typographical errors, perhaps from editors who don't have English as their first language. I'd fix it, but it's more than a quarter past one in the morning here and I'd like to be up early tomorrow... [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 17:18, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::I did a copyedit of the whole thing, and I think it was enough to get rid of the tag; if anyone disagrees, feel free to re-add it and direct a long rant, and perhaps a [[wp:trout|fish]], in my general direction. [[User:C628|C628]] ([[User talk:C628|talk]]) 22:54, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. Large enough event. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 18:20, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' can some mention of the additional infrastructure be made? Guangzhou has opened several extra metro lines in the last couple of months and I don't believe Asia's rapidly improving infrastructure has received enough attention. Otherwise '''Support''' -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 00:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' as above. [[User:AngChenrui|A<small>NG</small>]][[User talk:AngChenrui|C<small>HENRUI</small>]] <sub>[[WP:MSE]]</sub>[[User:AngChenrui/BS|♨]] 02:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  03:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[2010 G-20 Seoul summit]] ====
The summit has been held, but article still lacks the results. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 20:44, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:The article would need some work{{mdash}}there's not a lot of prose in there and there's quite a bit of trivia, lists, pretty graphics and other stuff that makes it look more substantial than it really is. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:00, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
: I'm a bit disappointed that noone har updated the article about what actually did get decided. Article would probably be ITN worty, but with an outdated article is a bit pointless. I assume the actual decisions (abstract economic politics) is a bit hard to interprete and understand. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 18:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 11==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 11]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 11}}
{{cob}}
----

===="Massive Bomb" Blast in Karachi====
[http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Karachi-Explosion-At-Least-35-Injured-And-Police-Station-Collapses-In-Pakistans-Largest-City/Article/201011215800606?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15800606_Karachi_Explosion%3A_At_Least_35_Injured_And_Police_Station_Collapses_In_Pakistans_Largest_City]] Bomb levels the Pakistans [[Criminal Investigation Department]] base of operations in Karachi and breaks windows two Kilometers away! Information is just coming in over the wires. its asttounding 2 KMs.. We need an article as well.[[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 16:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11737402 BBC News] That's a big blast on a significant target (amazing there are any "wires" left to get the news out!) Let's see what sort of article can be made of it. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 16:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:: cant keep Pakistan out of the news unfortunately--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 16:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::started article: [[Pakistani Criminal Investigation Department bombing]]. Give me ten minutes and I will have it at least a good stub [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 17:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Done creating stub. Needs more work and sources and updates obsviously [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 17:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::The Beeb are now reporting 20 deaths, including 5 police officers, though they're also saying the blast was felt 2 ''miles'', not 2km away. That was just before 9pm UTC. It'll probably be morning before we get much more detail. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::It was within two hours, of the blast. 2 miles if memory serves that means it was felt even farther than initial reports of 2km [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 00:44, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' when started article.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 17:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' once a more stable death toll and number of injured people are confirmed, and when the article is expanded (naturally). '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 18:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Low death toll [[List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2010|compared to other major terrorist incidents]]. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 19:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Death toll isn't the sole criterion on which we decide items for ITN. In this case, this could turn out to be ITN-worthy (we don't really have enough information to decide yet) because there is something unusual about it (the demolition of the HQ of a notable law enforcement agency) other than just the death toll. Like I say, we need to wait for the dust to settle (literally and metaphorically). [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:05, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Indeed, This is the like either the FBI or NSA building being blown up. I really dont have time to contribute all i would like to it right now but its there if some one want to take the initiative. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 00:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Agree with HJM and RA on notability: it's one thing to set off a big bomb, and quite another to set off a big bomb that destroys the HQ of the anti-terrorist police in a city of 12&nbsp;million people! I can't really do much on the article at the moment; we can't post yet, because we only have the initial news reports to go on, but let's see in a few hours time. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:49, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Thanks for enlighting the circumstances, I '''Support''' it being ITN-worthy. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. [http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2010/11/20101111154541447638.html Al Jazeera] calls this "a rare attack on government security forces in Karachi [...] far removed from Taliban strongholds in the northwest". --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 01:48, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' when article ready.  the venue, number of dead and injured are unusual even for Pakistan and make this ITNworthy.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 02:27, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' when ready. Although I wouldn't say the number of dead are 'unusual' (per Wikireader above)....[[User:Mar4d|Mar4d]] ([[User talk:Mar4d|talk]]) 10:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
* [[Pakistani Criminal Investigation Department bombing|The article]] was recently expanded. Ready for posting in my opinion. Blurb suggestions? --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  16:59, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:I've changed article title to CID building attack. Please edit blurb. --[[User:Saqib Qayyum|Saqib Qayyum]] ([[User talk:Saqib Qayyum|talk]]) 17:15, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Done and move-protected because page moves on a whim while the article's on the MP are very annoying. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:46, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

====Draw for 2011 Copa America====
Was today ! [http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=copa+america+2011&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGLL_en___AR384&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&q=copa+america+2011&rlz=1B3GGLL_en___AR384&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=wn&fp=55883ae207568818] --[[User:Jor70|Jor70]] ([[User talk:Jor70|talk]]) 00:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. When it happens, we'll post the winner. But certainly not the draw, which after all just determines which teams will play each other. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:15, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. I can't even imagine this would get much support to post to final. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 00:18, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. We don't post draws, otherwise we'd be even more inundated with sport than we currently are. Nominate the final (and preferably tell us what sport it is, I assume it ''is'' a sports event?) and it will be considered on its merits. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:41, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Not newsworthy. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 01:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

==== [[Call of Duty: Black Ops]] ====
The game has recently been released and has set quite a impressive 24 hours sales and reception. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Impressive means what? Anymore details? '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 21:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:: "sold an excess of 5.6 million copies in 24 hours in the UK and the US combined" --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::How does that compare to previous video games? This would have to break some records to be considered I think. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 21:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Ah, [http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrends/20101111/tc_digitaltrends/callofdutyblackopssetssalesrecordof360million_1 best 24 hours] ever. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 21:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. We don't often run gaming stories, which is a good reason to run one when a good story comes along. 5.6M copies in 24&nbsp;hours is pretty impressive, and is significantly higher than the previous record (4.7M). The article looks in good shape as well. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:59, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' those are some impressive sales totals. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  22:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per DC and Physchim62. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 22:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:What's the record that's been broken? Another support or 2 and I'm willing to post (assuming, of course, that the article has been adequately updated). Blurb suggestions are welcome. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per DC and Physchim. <code>[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]] sells 5.6 million copies in its first 24 hours, the most of any video game in that time.</code> It's kinda rough though, not sure how to word it better. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 22:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:It worked until we got to "in that time"! Any more suggestions while I check the article out? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:51, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::'surpassing the record held by <whatever it was>'? And probably 'within 24 hours of going on sale' rather than 'its first 24 hours', which means the first 24 hours of gameplay... [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:57, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*The [[video game]] '''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]''' breaks the 24-hour sales record in the [[United Kingdom]] and the [[United States]]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Normally, sales for the United States include those in Canada if I am not mistaken. I think naming countries at the end of the blurb is useless; as far as I have read this is the largest opening-day of a game anywhere in the world, period, so why not just say so? --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 23:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's not much of an update, just one sentence appended on to the lead. At the very least, we'd need a few sentences somewhere n the body. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**What sort of an update do you want with this sort of a story FFS. The article provides excellent background to the blurb: that should be the criterion for posting. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:11, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::{{ec}}  There should at least be something in the body of the article (probably in the 'reception' section). The lead is supposed to be a summary. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:17, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Indeed. Two sentences with a reference in the body stating what the record is, when it was broken, which game held it previously and other pertinent details would be satisfactory for me. Then I can go to bed! [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' per DC and Physchim. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 00:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Posted''' --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 01:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

===="[[Latin Grammy Awards of 2010]]"====
* The [[Latin Grammy Awards of 2010|11th Latin Grammy Awards]] is scheduled today and the [http://www.latingrammy.com/en/home telecasting as already begun] according to the main web site. The show starts in ten minutes, will be broadcasted by [[Univision]], and is set in [[Las Vegas]]. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 22:55, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:What exactly is the story here? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:55, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The Latin Grammy Awards is currently showing right now. I saw how the Grammy Awards of 2010 was posted here, so I thought it would be appropriate to do the same here. If you need another news source, here's [http://en.terra.com/music/news/latin_grammy_2010_tune_in_and_follow_the_show_with_us/oci42137 another] I've got. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 23:57, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't tell me Latin music has no rights here :P '''Support'''. As important as the Anglo-Saxon Grammy Awards. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::::'''Oppose''' not as significant as the regular Grammies.  We don't post the daytime Emmies. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  01:10, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::::: How is it not as significant as the regular Grammies? For the films section, we have [[Palme d'Or|French films awards]], [[Golden Lion|Italin films awards]], and [[Golden Bear|German films awards]] list under [[Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items|Recurring items]]. It has the same features as the regular Grammies ([[Latin Grammy Award for Song of the Year|Song of the Year]], [[Latin Grammy Award for Record of the Year|Record of the Year]], and [[Latin Grammy Award for Album of the Year|Album of the Year]]). It's presented by [[Latin Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences]]. So how is it not "as significant"? Also the Daytime Emmies are awards about TV shows in the morning right? How does that compare to the diverse music of [[Latin American music|Latin America]]? [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 01:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per Diego Grez. The oppose above gives no reason for the suggested insignificance so I don't know how to work out the importance of the Latin Grammy Awards of 2010 from that. But it is reported in other parts of the world, for example [http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/article/889595--cerati-wins-2-grammys-for-latin-rock Canada] and [http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-52853220101112 India]. The winner Cerati being "a fixture in Latin music for decades" also sounds important as does "several elder statesman of Latin music picked up key awards". Many countries are involved in this type of music so it is not a national award. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 01:43, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' as per above and the fact i just saw news about it here in Canada ...Looks like a Canadian might win something  and i can only presume that people from all around the world will win awards. I think this is very interesting, main stream  and something our readers will find interesting.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 02:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Now that the awards are over, how is this for a headline?
[[Image:Juanluisguerra1.png|right|85px]]
*Dominican Republic singer [[Juan Luis Guerra]] ''(pictured)'' wins [[Latin Grammy Award for Album of the Year|Album of the Year]] for ''[[A Son de Guerra]]'' and Mexican pop band [[Camila (band)|Camila]] wins [[Latin Grammy Award for Record of the Year|Record of the Year]] and [[Latin Grammy Award for Song of the Year|Song of the Year]] for "[[Mientes]]" at the '''[[Latin Grammy Awards of 2010|11th Latin Grammy Awards]]'''. [http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118027378?refCatId=14 Source] [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 05:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

: Okay, so there no one else seems to object this being list on the main page. Is this a go? [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 16:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::The article needs more prose update. --[[User:BorgQueen|BorgQueen]] ([[User talk:BorgQueen|talk]]) 17:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Someone went ahead and updated the article already. In addition, I've posted some highlights similarly to 52nd Grammy Awards article. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 19:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::: Can someone just approve or reject this headline already? I don't mean to be impatient, but the consensus has been supportive and I think I've fixed the above problem. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 22:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::::ITN doesn't work on summary rejection or approval like other processes, such as DYK. Instead, it relies on a consensus being formed that a) the event is significant enough and b) the article is of sufficient quality and has been updated. This can take time, but, as one of the most active admins around ITN, I can assure you it isn't being overlooked. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Looking further at this, the article is certainly no worse than [[52nd Grammy Awards]] which, even now, has roughly the same, of not less, prose. However, I'm far from convinced that we should consider the posting of a similar article nearly 10 months ago to be ''ratio decidendi'', nor that we yet have a consensus to post this. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:46, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::: Well look at this way. The headlines for the 52nd Grammy Awards were Taylor Swift (album of the Year), Kings of Leon, and Beyonce. They were Americans but each of them performed different genres. With the Latin Grammy Awards, the album of the year went to a Dominican Republic singer, song of the year and record of the year went to a Mexican pop band, and the person of the year went to a Spanish tenor. So it wouldn't really be the same thing as posting the 52nd Grammy Awards. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 02:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. We can't start posting the awards ceremonies for each specific genre of music; we'd never stop. These awards also appear to be limited to the US (please correct me if I'm wrong). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 02:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:: As Candlewickle pointed "Many countries are involved in this type of music so it is not a national award." [[Latin music]] isn't a just one genre. Both Candlewick and Moxy also pointed out, there are headlines around the world for this ceremony. I also want to point out that the Latin Grammy Awards is the ''only'' other Grammy Award ceremony. There isn't any other seperate "Grammy Awards" that are presented. [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 02:14, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
*"[[Latin American music]], often called Latin music, is the music of all countries in Latin America".
*"[[Latin America]] has an area of approximately 21,069,500&nbsp;km² (7,880,000 sq mi), almost 3.9% of the Earth's surface or 14.1% of its land surface area. As of 2010, its population was estimated at more than 580 million". That sounds like more people than there are in the United States. The first few paragraphs of the article [[Latin Grammy Awards of 2010]] mention winners from Spain, Mexico, Cuba, Canada, Dominican Republic... --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 03:40, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

So is this still a no-go or what? Is there something else that needs to be addressed? [[User:Magiciandude|Magiciandude]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 15:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==November 10==
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{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 10}}
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====[[2010 student protest in London]]====
- Major demonstration in central London, with most reports indicating that 50,000 people took to the streets in protest. The headquarters of the ruling political party has been attacked and occupied by protestors. Pretty big news in the United Kingdom and Europe. Occurred in the centre of a major world city.([[User:Midnightblueowl|Midnightblueowl]] ([[User talk:Midnightblueowl|talk]]) 20:27, 10 November 2010 (UTC))
:'''Weak oppose'''. Not a large protest by global standards; even in Europe cf. the recent protests in France, Greece etc. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 20:32, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Additional: the protests did not 'descend into a riot' as some have said below. One building had it's windows smashed and lobby vandalised. That's not a [[riot]]. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 03:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''' interesting story, has been getting some int'l attention.  And it's been a pretty slow month. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  20:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' 50k is pretty small really. 4x smaller than the [[Rally to restore sanity and/or fear]] in the US which wasn't posted (and yes the UK has a smaller population than the US, but the US is much more spread out). -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 20:49, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Did the rally descend into a riot? Because that's really why this particular demonstration in London has been put foward. I'd say numbers doesn't really matter, provided something unusual happened. --[[Special:Contributions/86.23.33.79|86.23.33.79]] ([[User talk:86.23.33.79|talk]]) 21:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Reading the news reports now. Though Riot police our out the most dangerous things I am reading is the Peaceful sit in, some fruit being thrown and maybe a beer bottle. My Campus calls that a damn good party not a quite a riot [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 21:20, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Then try [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmudJafnQh0&feature=channel watching] it. This isn't peaceful. --[[Special:Contributions/86.23.33.79|86.23.33.79]] ([[User talk:86.23.33.79|talk]]) 22:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak Oppose''' The only reason I am not outright opposing is due to its interest to substantial Portion of English readers. That being said to put it in perspective its still half the size of the Restoring Honor Rally  (even by the most skeptical estimates) and a fraction of the Size of recent french Riots or Rally to Restore Sanity. It appears the only novel thing in this case is the occupation of ruling party's building. I am not sure if thats an "official building" or an office building. So no I dont think we should post it. As always I am open to being persuaded. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 20:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well, its the building that their headquarters are found within. Whether the protestors actually broke into the HQ or not still doesn't seem clear. They certainly amde it into both the reception and the roof.([[User:Midnightblueowl|Midnightblueowl]] ([[User talk:Midnightblueowl|talk]]) 20:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC))
::: Thank you for that clarification. Since it's not a Government building  combined with the article being a wreck. I am staying with Weak oppose unless something really dramatic happens  [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 21:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - Todays biggest news story. Good article, expande I guess.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 22:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak oppose''' per modest genius. 50k is rather small for a mostly non-violent protest (I mean, no deaths). '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 22:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''' not the largest of protests by volumes, but infiltrating the Tory HQ is quite a notable aspect of it, although this is a very domestic affair. It's quite rare to get deaths from protests in democracies such as the UK anyway. The article is looking good, too. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#00824A;">Jolly</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#2A5FFF;">Ω</span>]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#00824A;">Janner</span>]]''' 23:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. Hold on, 50k demonstrators? About a subject (the details of funding of university courses) which isn't much interest outside England & Wales (not even the entire UK)? Add a bit of violence against the building holding the source of their frustrations and were supposed to post this? ''See'' [[Poll Tax Riots]] for notable demonstrations in London. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', fairly major event.  I think that 50k is lots for a protest. [[User:Meshach|meshach]] ([[User talk:Meshach|talk]]) 00:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''' since the political HQ was occupied in this case. The rest sounds [http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1104/1224282635055.html very] [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11686778 very] [http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1109/breaking20.html familiar] and very last Wednesday... right down to the "largest student protest in a generation" line which is in the article... and when taking the populations of the two countries into account this protest does seem rather small. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 02:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Suggest: <code> <s>British students</s> Protesters '''[[2010 student protest in London|occupy]]''' the headquarters of the ruling [[Conservative Party (UK)|Conservative Party]] in protest against planned spending cuts to [[further education]] and an increase in [[tuition fees]] by the [[United Kingdom coalition government (2010–present)|United Kingdom coalition government]]. </code> --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 02:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If this is to be posted, which currently looks unlikely, the I'd suggest replacing "British students" with just "protesters". Certainly not all of them were students (there were university lecturers on the march and other people who joined just to cause trouble or for the thrill) and "British" would imply it affects the whole of the UK, but the issue is just about tuition fees in England and Wales. Sometimes, I almost wish I were Scottish. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  02:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right, that's probably better. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 02:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak oppose'''. As strongly as I feel on the subject (strongly enough that I would have been there if I could have afforded to get to London), this isn't big enough for ITN. It's just one demonstration in one city and there was a bit of trouble at the building where the ruling party is based. The French riots (in typical French style!) were much bigger and were spread across various cities. Even the G20 protests 18 months aren't really comparable despite the similarity in numbers. The repercussions of that protest are still being felt today. Indeed, they were evidenced by the way the police handled this event. It's unlikely (though not impossible) that this protest will have such repercussions. Sadly, the windows will be repaired, the protesters will go home, this'll drop out of the headlines in a day or two and student debt will skyrocket. :( [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  02:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' not notable. Protests by interest groups like this happen all the time, with thousands of people, eg public servants, schoolteachers, etc. Even with violence, students inciting scuffles is nothing new. My local senator :( did it when they were at uni. I think it was in April 2002 when the IP conflict was peaking, about 10,000 Hamas supporters tried to demonstrate and break into the Israeli consulate in Sydney. It's nothing special. Rallies with tens of thousands of people waving Tamil Tiger or Hezbollah flags in the western world are not uncommon '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  03:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' yet another protest in a Europe that is going bankrupt.  What is the news here.  another place similar protest.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 09:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' my understanding of ITN is that it is supposed to allow readers to read an article related to the news, not simply report the news. If there was an article detailing the proposed cuts in education, then it might be suitable to include that in ITN, but at the moment this shouldn't be included. [[User:Smartse|SmartSE]] ([[User talk:Smartse|talk]]) 18:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Cyclone Jal]]====
- Causes a total of 117 fatalities in India, Thailand and Malaysia. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 14:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support and Speedy post''' High death toll, international effects, Article in excellent condition.  Its ITN material  the Time is red lets post [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Willing to post when the working tag goes down (wouldn't want to disturb anything). Also, please provide a good blurb. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 14:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''[[Cyclone Jal]]''' and associated flooding kill at least 117&nbsp;people in [[India]], [[Thailand]] and [[Malaysia]].
::Tag is off now. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:50, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::(ec)Its been removed - but after [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates&oldid=395271974 last weeks furore], i would wait until a few more people have commented on it. As for a blurb how about Cyclone Jal kills at least 117 people as it affects the Malay Peninsular, Sri Lanka and India.[[User:Jason Rees|Jason Rees]] ([[User talk:Jason Rees|talk]]) 14:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Last week was hardly a "furore" by the standards we can get down to! '''Support''' as a significant number of casualties over a wide geographic area. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Indeed. We've seen much greater controversies over much more trivial things. '''Posted''' because [insert RA's rationale here] and we're 40 hours without an update. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I guess I would have suggested waiting for a bit more mainstream news coverage but it's posted now, and i won't suggest taking it down.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:22, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I think part of the beauty of ITN is our ability to provide information on events that ''aren't'' getting much coverage from the big Western news organisations. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  16:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Actually I was thinking of that.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::It's impossible to prove a causal link, and it doesn't work every time (obviously!) but let's just see if this story doesn't get a bit more coverage in the "mainstream media" now that it's on ITN... If it does, it wouldn't be the first time I've seen the phenomenon! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

====[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/science/space/10galaxy.html?_r=1&hp Bubbles of Energy found at the centre of the Milky Way]====
Bubbles of energy that contain close to the same amount of energy as 100 000 supernova explosions have been found in the centre of the Milky Way galaxy. It is on the front page of the NYTimes and it definitely looks to be a huge news story. Vancyon 00:39, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Note: I would not use the term bubble, but I don't know what else to call it, just forwarding it to you guys. Vancyon 00:41, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Neutral''' If some one can explain its significance to me i'll support. Cause like most Astrophysicist stuff I have no clue what it means... [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 01:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well, if we ever figure out a way to travel at the speed of light, we could send a ship there, and then just 60,000 years later they could be back here with some sweet, sweet energy. [[User:Kafziel|Kafziel]] <sup>[[User talk:Kafziel|Complaint Department: Please take a number]]</sup> 01:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:I, well, wow. I really don't know what to make of this (and I'm a professional astronomer). I'll have a detailed read of [http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010arXiv1005.5480S the paper] tomorrow and try to work it out. However, if it IS true, it's almost certainly a relic from previous feeding by of the supermassive black hole. We'll also need to work out where on Earth to put the update. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 01:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes that was my thought as well, but thats nearly as bad as the dilemma of writing a ''short'' blurb for it. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 03:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::[[Milky Way]] discovered to be giant [[atomic orbital|d<sub>z<sup>2</sup></sub> orbital]]? Sorry, I'll get back to chemistry... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 03:47, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:So too late, I'm guessing? Vancyon  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Vancyon|Vancyon]] ([[User talk:Vancyon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vancyon|contribs]]) 05:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==November 9==
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{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 9}}
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====[[Large Hadron Collider]]====
The LHC has switched to smashing lead ions (from protons) [http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2010/PR21.10E.html] [http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2010/11/08/first-lead-ion-collisions-in-the-lhc/]. This should generate much higher energies [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-collider/8118000/Large-Hadron-Collider-The-importance-of-lead-lead-collisions-at-the-LHC.html]. The press seems to be full of "mini-big Bang" articles: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11711228], [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1327769/Large-Hadron-Collider-creates-mini-Big-Bang.html], [http://www.news.com.au/technology/scientists-use-large-hadron-collider-to-create-the-worlds-first-mini-big-bang/story-e6frfro0-1225950191319], [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11715120], [http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/09/3060988.htm?section=world], [http://news.discovery.com/space/lhc-to-recreate-conditions-just-after-big-bang.html], [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-collider/8117453/Start-of-the-Universe-mini-Big-Bang-recreated.html]. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 09:23, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
: I was considering nominating this but then decided not to. Smashing heavy nuclei is not something new and while this is the first time they did this at CERN, it is just a step towards real goals they want to achieve. So, I'd support posting some significant discoveries we expect within months but not at this stage. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 11:54, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' (as a trained physicist myself). Heavy ion colliding is nothing new or exciting. Although this is the first time the LHC has done it, that's really only of interest to particle physicists. CERN have done a good PR job, and the media have taken things way too far. This is nothing like a 'mini Big Bang', whatever one of those is supposed to be, and I sincerely hope CERN didn't use the term themselves. Just because the media don't understand science doesn't make it news. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 12:21, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. I was also pretty underwhelmed by the announcement, glad to see I was missing something. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 12:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Unless it causes a black hole.  </physicist trolling> --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 12:37, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::[http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html take a look] [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:39, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OMG. Must Post NOW!!!! [[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 00:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' Maybe, if it DOES cause a black hole, and if this black hole eats up the entire Earth, then no-one will be able to update the ITN!? So why not publish this one, before it's too late? [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 20:44, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::: We don't want to cause too much panic ;-) Though we posted the Solar flare that was to hit the Earth back in August... --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 21:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 8==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 8]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 8}}
{{cob}}
----
==== Emilio Eduardo Massera ====
'''[[Emilio Eduardo Massera]]''', one of the leaders of the [[1976 Argentine coup d'état]] and subsequent [[National Reorganization Process|military government]] dies at age 85.[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11713408]. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#000099;">Jayron</span>]]'''''[[User talk:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009900;">32</span>]]''''' 06:17, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:Wiki does not seem to hold him to be of great importance: he is not mentioned by name in [[National Reorganization Process]] or [[History of Argentina]]: three mentions in [[Dirty War]], two of which are in relation to an attempted assassination rather than anything that he did; one screen article.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:16, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Oppose''' I made some casual fixes, but the article is barely beyond the stub level and would hardly get anywhere to be in good shape before the news of his death simply die out. Besides, he's notable but his death isn't, there hasn't been a single reaction to it beyond the newspaper mentions and a pair of low-profile politician comments (just compare it with all the things generated by the deaths of Kirchner or Alfonsín). And I'm not sure if, outside of Argentina, someone has even noticed this or knew who was Massera without checking the wikipedia article [[User:MBelgrano|MBelgrano]] ([[User talk:MBelgrano|talk]]) 20:24, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. It got reported here in Spain [http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/internacional/20101108/fallece-exalmirante-emilio-massera/585467.shtml], but less so than the disturbances in Western Sahara (just to give a benchmark – if you didn't know there were disturbance in Western Sahara, you get some idea of how the Spanish press viewed Massera's death!) [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:41, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well, even in Argentina itself, the press gave more room to the resignation of Ángel Cappa as coach of the River Plate soccer team [[User:MBelgrano|MBelgrano]] ([[User talk:MBelgrano|talk]]) 02:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

====<s>United States backs India's bid for UNSC permanent seat</s>====
<s>
*[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/world/asia/09prexy.html?hp Obama Backs India for Seat on Security Council ''(NYT)'']
*[http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/08/obama.india.address/index.html?hpt=T2 Obama backs permanent seat for India on Security Council ''(CNN)'']
*[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11711007 Obama backs India on permanent UN Security Council seat ''(BBC)'']
*[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Obama-endorses-Indias-bid-for-permanent-seat-in-UNSC/articleshow/6889364.cms Obama endorses India's bid for permanent seat in UNSC ''(Times of India)'']
*[http://www.france24.com/en/20101108-india-usa-barack-obama-visit-parliament-diplomacy Obama backs Indian bid for permanent seat at Security Council ''(France24)'']

This piece of news has grabbed headlines across globe because there are several implications, such as [[reform of the United Nations Security Council]], [[India – United States relations]], [[Sino-American relations]], [[Pakistan – United States relations]] and [[Indo-Pakistani relations]]. Surprised that no one nominated this news item yet. --[[User:King Zebu|King Zebu]] ([[User talk:King Zebu|talk]]) 18:45, 8 November 2010 (UTC)</s>

:'''Oppose''' unless something ''actually happens''. Obama simply saying he supports it doesn't actually make it happen. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 18:52, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::On second thoughts, you are right. I withdraw the nomination. Anyways, the point was the ''implication'' of such a gesture by the U.S. President on bilateral relations involving U.S., China, India and Pakistan. But, I understand that are no immediate implications of this development. --[[User:King Zebu|King Zebu]] ([[User talk:King Zebu|talk]]) 19:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Didn't we just have a UNSC election a few weeks ago? Wouldn't that make the next one in two years? '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 20:38, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Nope: half the non-permanant seats are up every year, tenure is two years. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 22:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Oppose''' the chances of getting the other members to all agree on any candidates is pretty low. The US knows someone else will veto the change. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:06, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:I know the nomination's been withdrawn, so I won't formally oppose, but I will say that this is generating a lot of light but next to no heat. Much as the press might jump up and down, there's nothing particularly significant here and there won't be until the ball starts rolling towards UNSC membership and, even then, I don't think we should post anything until (if) it happens. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:58, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::But, an actual expansion of the P5 would be a no brainer to post if and when it happens. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 09:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Of course. But it doesn't look like it's happening soon. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 12:22, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::We have been telling Japan the same thing for years. The only way is to expand the council to permanently include Brazil, Germany, Japan and India. We'll wait... We'll watch... We'll see [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 22:49, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::And what about Indonesia and South Africa? Its impossible. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:24, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

====Russia village attack====
12 killed after a attack in Krasnodar, Russia - [http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/12-killed-in-village-attack/421891.html] - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 14:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:Thus far does not appear to be an international incident, just a harsh episode of crime. No article even proposed, let alone exists. 20 people were killed this weekend in Ciudad Juarez, but no one would think to nominate that. '''Strong oppose'''. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] ([[User talk:Golbez|talk]]) 17:18, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' nasty? yes... Sad? yes..... ITN worthy? No. Run of the mill crime. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 23:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. The loss of life is tragic, but the incident will not have any continued coverage in the media and so is not notable, much less ITN-worthy, so it's probably just as well we don't have an article. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:49, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' It's a sad story, but it's not ITN-worthy, per comments above. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 01:54, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

====Michel Houellebecq====
[[Image:2008.06.09. Michel Houellebecq Fot Mariusz Kubik 03.jpg|right|85px]]
'''[[Michel Houellebecq]]''' ''(pictured)'' wins the 2010 [[Prix Goncourt]] for his novel ''[[La Carte et le Territoire]]''. [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 13:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC) 
:<s>'''Weak Oppose''' This sounds like a notable award, my only nit pick is we have no article for the work. That would strike me as a key Wikilink for ITN. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
::English sources are slim to none, french sources are pretty easy to find. Which means My attempt to create an article for it is not going to work becuase I cant read french. If some one here can read french we could throw an article together pretty easily [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Update''' I started something... so now we have an entry [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 14:38, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Full support''' Notable award. Notable book, Notable Author. havent Check ITN/R but it ought to be on there [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::I wouldn't put it on ITN/R, no, but this year's Goncourt seems like a good ITN story. Next year we might have a better story from some other language, or we might have another good Goncourt story: let's wait and see! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. The Prix Goncourt is "France's top literary award" (according to the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11710831 BBC]) and Houellebecq is a well-known and controversial author. The story also has a little bit of WP interest, as Houellebecq was accused of plagiarizing French Wikipedia (and other sites) for some of the passages ([http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0909/1224278513426.html ''Irish Times''])! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:09, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Could someone add a a few sentences on the award and maybe a little reaction, then I'm willing to post. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  22:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
: Done. [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 22:42, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Posted''' --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 23:17, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

====Latest in HIV treatment====
Clue to how some 'control' their [[HIV]] without medication. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11692798 BBC] [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 13:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' I like this, but its does not strike me as really ITN worthy. Its a possible road to a cure but I see nothing in the article to indicate its any sort of big break through. I am open to being pursaded but right now I dont see the importance [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 14:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' you left the word "may" out of your nomination.  That's really the deal breaker. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  18:06, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 7==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 7]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 7}}
{{cob}}
----
====World Rowing Championship====
''The '''[[2010 World Rowing Championships]]''' reach their conclusion at [[Lake Karapiro]], [[New Zealand]], with Germany gaining most titles.''
::The nomination below was inappopriately focussed on one event out of 22 (or 27 if Paralympic style adaptive events are included), but taken as a whole I believe it merits consideration.  A sport with widespread (if not thoroughly global) participation: 25 different nations from 5 continents win medals, 14 different countries win golds.  Some dismissed the event below as of little interest: it had several hours of coverage on BBC terrestrial channels over the weekend.  Article needs work, however: little explanantion for the non-cognoscenti. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If I could make some comparisons, IMO this is somewhat less notable, based on the criteria you mentioned above, than the [[FIVB World Championship]] which was not posted (and that's not an annual event--it takes place once in four years). It's also less notable IMO than the [[FIBA World Championship for Women]] which was also not posted. OTOH it is of similar notability to the [[World Artistic Gymnastics Championships]], which was posted this year (not last year though).  I think it is more notable than the the New York Marathon (it's one of 5 annual marathon majors, not a single world championship), which was just posted and is an ITNR event; however this year's edition is significantly more notable due to the retirement of Haile Gebreslassie.  I'm not sure how to compare it to the [[Federation Cup]] but that hasn't even been nominated and it's certainly a big deal in some places.  I don't believe precedent should be decisive but it's useful to look at.  Rowing is an Olympic sport and has significant participation in many countries, no question.  But there's no getting around that it's a niche-interest sport.  I assume it has greater interest in the UK, but looking at the BBC Sport website it seems to be relegated to lower priority-coverage than Football, Rugby, Cricket, Boxing, Tennis, Athletics and Formula 1 and that's just stuff going on right now (though I'd be happy to see more examples of coverage/interest from other editors--I'm sure I don't have a full picture).  I am not opposed, but I think sometimes we have to realize we can't post every niche-interest sport (whether that niche is geography-based or interest-based or whatever).  ITN could easily become cluttered with relatively insignificant sporting items and that would be a serious cause of complaints I think.  In this case we already have the NYC marathon on the template.  Just my two cents...--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:32, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::::There's also the [[2010 World Fencing Championships]] set to finish in two days, which seems to be much bigger news at [http://www.lequipe.fr/ L'Equipe] than the rowing.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think we put far too much sport on ITN as it is, but we're not inundated with it atm, so I'm on the fence here. Some more comments would be nice before this drops into the archives. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  15:04, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Rowing is still a smaller sport in comparison with the "big ones" such as football and basketball (or athletics). So, I'd conditionally support it on a slow news week with no other sport events but not today (we already have the marathon on ITN). --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 15:09, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' - These kind of news are a great substitute for the usual American stories and political ones.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 18:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::What 'usual American stories or political ones'?  There are none on the template now (except the marathon I suppose).--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Please comment on the merits of each item rather than supporting based on strawman arguments. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:14, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose'''--Still very little prose and only one reference.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' pending improvement. Imortance is certainly fulfilled '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  03:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Note:''' If we go by [http://stats.grok.se/en/201011/2010%20World%20Rowing%20Championships article viewing stats], it did better than [http://stats.grok.se/en/201009/2010%20All-Ireland%20Senior%20Football%20Championship%20Final Gaelic football] (Gaelic football's "2nd" spike was 2 days ''after'' the final, when it was on the main page.) Point: If ''that'' went up, no reason why this shouldn't. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 18:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well, there currently is a reason--article needs expansion.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:25, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Of course, aside from that, which is the main point of ITN. :P &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 19:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Haile Gebrselassie]] retires after ING NYC Marathon====
Haile Gebrselassie, widely regarded as the greatest distance runner of all time, retires after the ING NYC Marathon. Gebrselassie has broken 27 world records throughout his career, 61 Ethiopian national records, and numerous World and Olympic medals.[http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video/237408-2010-ing-new-york-city-marathon/363913-haile-gebrselassie-retires-after-dropping-out-of-2010-nyc-marathon Flotrack.org][[Special:Contributions/24.16.148.194|24.16.148.194]] ([[User talk:24.16.148.194|talk]]) 18:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:No update at [[New York City Marathon]] as of yet.  I would support this if we could combine the Gebreselassie retirement and the NYC marathon winners in one blurb.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::I've just added a short update at [[New_York_City_Marathon#2010]].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:59, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support if combined''' with the results (which are currently on [[WP:ITNR]]). [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:03, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::Agreed with the above, though personally I find the Gebrselassie retirement far more notable than the actual winner.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 19:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::i agree his retirement is way more notable... maybe it should be mentioned first? -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 19:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''.  Gebreselassie is arguably the most successful distance runner ever and has been at the top for the last 20 years.  This is a big deal.  --[[User:Raintaster|Raintaster]] ([[User talk:Raintaster|talk]]) 21:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Gebre Gebremariam]] and [[Edna Kiplagat]] win the 2010 '''[[New York City Marathon]]''', as [[Marathon world record progression|world-record holder]] '''[[Haile Gebrselassie]]''' announces his retirement after abandoning the race through injury. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:*'''Posted''' --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 22:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::*There is now a dedicated article on the [[2010 New York City Marathon]] if you want to link to that. [[User talk:Sillyfolkboy|SFB]] 23:14, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::*Linked, thanks --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 00:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Belated support''' Notable event <!-- To be honest, I don't like much that there are always US-related thingies everywhere, but well... --> [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Sagrada Família]] consecrated====
[[File:Sagrada Familia 01.jpg|right|100x100px]]
[[File:Sagrada familia by night 2006.jpg|right|100x100px]]
[[File:Sagfampassion.jpg|right|80px]]
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11705036 BBC].  The Pope has consecrated [[Gaudi]]'s famous [[Sagrada Família]], under construction since 1882, as a [[basilica]].  Seems like an important milestone of what will eventually be the world's tallest church and one of its most famous.  Article requires more work on the update but is otherwise OK and full of fabulous pictures [[User:Dumelow|Dumelow]] ([[User talk:Dumelow|talk]]) 13:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' Extensive constructions project and now opens for public worship. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:07, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I think proclaimed a [[Basilica]] should be the focus here. It has been open for two months already, not really a news in my opinion. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::It's been open to visitors for years, and is one of Spain's most visted tourist attractions. The consacration means that it will hold regular religious services, which it hasn't done up to now. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 13:45, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' per above. This means the church is open, though it is not completed yet. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 13:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Strong Oppose''' If the Christ statue wasnt passed then this shouldnt be either. So what if the Pope consecrated Sagrada Família?--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 13:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::I wonder how do you compare a statue, even it's the largest in the world of the same sort, with a church which would be one of the largest and is considered a master-piece for many years before its completion.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 13:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Easy, [[WP:POINT]]. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 15:22, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong support.''' This is really important report, and receives too much attention. At last, the church is consecrated which means it will be completed after decades of deferring.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 13:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::Well the Jesus statue is one of the top news on Sky News today, but I dont see any report on this so called big news on this church.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 13:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't forget that the consacration has ''only just'' happened, less than two hours ago, but here's [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11705036 BBC News] and [http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2010/11/07/01003-20101107DIMWWW00073-le-pape-consacre-la-basilique-de-la-sagrada-familia-a-barcelone.php ''Le Figaro'' (France)]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Pope]] [[Benedict XVI]] [[Consecration|consecrates]] the '''[[Sagrada Família]]''' in [[Barcelona]], and declares it a [[basilica]], 128&nbsp;years after construction started and 16&nbsp;years before the expected date of completion. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:The article meets the minimum update requirements. Posting soon. --[[User:BorgQueen|BorgQueen]] ([[User talk:BorgQueen|talk]]) 14:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Belated support''' Obviously noteworthy. Lol'd @ BabbaQ's non-sense oppose. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Hey, don't [[WP:BITE]]! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 04:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Azerbaijani parliamentary election, 2010]]====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11705141 BBC].  In addition to the other elections today (below) Azerbaijan is electing a new parliament.  The [[Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe]], which is overseeing the election, has said that the ruling [[New Azerbaijan Party]] has restricted the registration of opposition candidates and engaged in voter intimidation.  The article is quite short at the moment but could be expanded - [[User:Dumelow|Dumelow]] ([[User talk:Dumelow|talk]]) 13:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:The article is rather too stubby, even assuming a results section is added. On [[WP:ITNR]], but we still need a decent article with updates. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:07, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' when expanded. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Please do not add simple "support" or "oppose" votes. Explain the reasons why the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.''  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
*The article is still far too short to provide adequate information. It's basically a long-winded version of what the blurb would say. This risks dropping into the archives without being posted unless somebody's willing to spend an hour or so on it. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:42, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

====Guinean presidential election====
The final round for the [[Guinean presidential election, 2010]] is held today. The state has been under the control of a military junta since late 2009. This will be the return to democracy. Whatever the results are, the winner will be the "[http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jFMXVMDKa77Svj_FOoTzZUhkVW7w?docId=CNG.0b501ba9b6151316abd971aeb6972625.611 country's first democratically elected leader since independence]". This is historic. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 08:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Oppose''' The Burma election seems to be more controversial. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::Why are you comparing the two? How are they related? Please don't just submit random uneducated !votes. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 13:52, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I don't think it is a good idea to have two elections in ITN at the same time. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 14:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Well, we can end with having 3 actually, check above... As long as the article is good, it can go up. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 14:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::And should do, since it's on [[WP:ITN/R]]. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 15:07, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Any transfer from a junta to a democracy is very notable. Hopefully it does not turn out like the Burmese election is planned to turn out. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 16:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:This qualifies per [[WP:ITNR]], so there's no need for support or purpose to oppose votes. This should certainly go up once the results of the runoff are announced and the article is updated. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::No results expected before Wednesday. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Support''' --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Please do not add simple "support" or "oppose" votes. Explain the reasons why the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.''  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
*Any sign of results yet? I know the estimate was Wednesday, but we can be optimistic. Also, that {{tl|update}} tag will need dealing-with. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  15:02, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::Getting "early results" just an hour ago [http://allafrica.com/stories/201011110523.html 1] '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

====Burmese general election====
[[Burmese general election, 2010]] is held today. It's a farce, sure, but a notable one. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 08:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Support''' Controversial election and the first national election in twenty years. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. We've never had a requirement that elections have to be democratic to be posted! In many ways, the undemocratic ones are more interesting – read all about [[North Korean parliamentary election, 2009|what North Korea considers to be an election]]! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 12:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - ITN Ready.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::We don't usually post elections until there are results, which gives people a bit more time to polish up the [[Burmese general election, 2010]] article. It's not in bad shape, but it could use some polish before it goes on the Main Page. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 16:21, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per nom--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 16:20, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', obviously. Might be worth noting the controversy surrounding it. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 16:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support when we get the results.''' Obviously, we know what they're going to be, but I think it would be a more interesting update if a hook with the results was posted rather than just a hook saying that they're happening. <font style="font-family:Impact; font-size:14px;">[[User:Wackywace|<font color="darkblue">wacky</font>]][[User talk:Wackywace|<font color="darkbrown">wace</font>]]</font> 19:05, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think the election of the Pope is about the only election where we post the fact that it's happening before we post the results [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&oldid=12457191]! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:24, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:No need for support votes, it's on [[WP:ITNR]]. However, I would '''support''' adding a clause such as 'amid widespread international condemnation' to the blurb. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm very wary of adding any "comment" to the blurb: the article is the place for that, where it can be properly sourced and discussed. If people really want to add something, why not go with "elections boycotted by the main opposition party". [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 21:24, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::That's probably a good compromise. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 21:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:[http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/11/2010117153638185163.html Al-Jazeera] is suggesting the results will be published sometime Monday. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Please do not add simple "support" or "oppose" votes. Explain the reasons why the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.''  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Any sign of the "results" yet? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  19:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:Nope, the nearest we have is [http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-11/08/c_13595568.htm this] from Xinhua, almost 24&nbsp;hours ago. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:I recommend that we also make mention of the subsequent fighting with the ethnic minorities: [http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s3061688.htm 1], [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/08/burma-election-voter-intimidation 2]. It seems to typify the general feeling towards the election process. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 11:34, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:No actual numbers yet, but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/09/burma-usdp-wins-election the opposition has conceded defeat]. That could be a suitable time reference for ITN. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 13:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Note''' The blurB<del>p</del> could also include somethings about the aftermath [[2010 Burma border clashes]]. Any blurB<del>p</del> suggestions? --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:39, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Blurp Blurp]? [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 13:54, 9 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
::: Fixed ;)--[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 14:01, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Should we post now that the opposition have conceded defeat or do we still want to wait for the government to drop the pretence and announce the inevitable? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  14:59, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I say post now, if the article has been updated with the concession of defeat. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 15:04, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
*<code>In [[Burma]], the military-backed [[Union Solidarity and Development Party]] wins a majority in the country's first '''[[Burmese general election, 2010|elections]]''' in 20 years, sparking [[2010 Burma border clashes|violent conflict]] and allegations of [[electoral fraud]].</code> '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 15:24, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::Could also instead use the abbreviated [[Union Solidarity and Development Party|USDP]]... '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 15:27, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::We usually leave off electoral fraud allegations. In this case, those aren't even the main issues. I'd be more inclined to use the following if we wait for the results:
*The military-backed [[Union Solidarity and Development Party]] wins a majority in [[Burma]]'s first '''[[Burmese general election, 2010|elections]]''' for 20 years, after a boycott by the [[National League for Democracy|main opposition]].
::Or this if we post now:
*Opposition parties concede defeat to the military-backed [[Union Solidarity and Development Party]] in [[Burma]]'s first '''[[Burmese general election, 2010|elections]]''' for 20 years, after the [[National League for Democracy]] boycotts the elections
::The article could probably do with some tidying up too, though it might be OK as-is. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Go for posting with the second hook. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 04:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Am ready to post but the article currently has two maintenance templates on it, and a couple of expand tags, so I'm a little uneaasy. Could someone familiar with the subject clean up the article and/or remove the maintenance tags? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:06, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I only see one {{tl|expand}}, which is probably justified apart from the error that it should be {{tl|expand-section}}, but it's blue, not red or orange and the article s otherwise in a good enough shape to post. Still, I'd be happier if it were addressed witha few lines of text or removed if it's not warranted. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  16:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)  
*'''Comment'''  Don't know what to suggest but this item is likely going to ignite the [[Burma]]/[[Myanmar]] debate.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 11:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*:Article is currently at [[Burma]] so that is what we will use. A change in that would be left to [[WP:RM]]. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:06, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Bugger it, the article meets our criteria, despite one blue tag, so '''posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  17:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Post posting support''' this is notable. And unlike last time its not an piece about the country changing its name, so I don't think the Burma/Myanmar thing is a big deal. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 19:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 6==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 6]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 6}}
{{cob}}
----

====[[Frida Svensson (rower)|Frida Svensson]]====
[[Frida Svensson (rower)|Frida Svensson]] won  gold medal in the women's single sculls at the [[2010 World Rowing Championships]] the first Swedish sculling gold medal since 1995, the victory was notable for narrowly defeating [[Belarus]] rower [[Ekaterina Karsten]] who has dominated women's sculling since 1996.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', niche sport of limited international interest.  Nice story, just not ITN worthy. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 00:52, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::There could be some merit in proposing the [[2010 World Rowing Championships]], probably with a blurb on any world best times being broken or the final medal table: a blurb picking out one nation's first medal is to assume a specific perspective is of prime interest to the readership.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 10:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::<s>According to our [[Sports in Romania]] article, it's of no surprise a Romanian actually won this one, considering also the Belarussian could've not possibly held on to the championship forever. I'd probably support if it were Barbadian, or a country's first gold medal at the ''Olympics.'' &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 11:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
::::??? Svensson is not Romanian.  Did you read the proposal? [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 11:24, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::lol I mixed this up w/ something else. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 13:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Trivial fact about a minor sport. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per Modest Genius. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Actually rowing is done at a high level in many countries, with 22 winning WC medals, let alone other world class rankings. It is a std sport in a lot of schools and universities etc '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  04:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[Christ the King (statue)|Christ the King]]====
[[File:Swiebodzin chrystus statua.jpg|150px|thumb|right]]
[[Christ the King (statue)|Christ the King]] a statue of [[Jesus Christ]] in [[Świebodzin]], [[Poland]] is completed, making it the largest statue of Jesus in the world.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 18:46, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' when expanded. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 18:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', with condition mentioned above. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 18:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::I have searched for more info but right now I atleast cant find any more information. But I ofcourse Support this article too.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 19:00, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::But if someone else find anything, please contribute.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 19:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Polish article looks good. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 19:19, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Big? Yes, World's Biggest? Yes. Is it "News?" No.  This strikes me as more a Trivia thing more fitting for WP:DYK than ITN once its expanded. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 19:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''<s>Neutral for now</s>''' (After thinking it over) '''Oppose'''...Just wondering, why is this significant outside of the fact that the statue is of Jesus? How does it stand in the list of largest statues in the world regardless of who the subject is? The [[Crazy Horse Memorial]] I can see getting posted due to size when it's completed, but this one I'm not so sure about. I also can't shake the feeling that if it were the world's largest statue of [[Martin Luther King Jr.]] or [[Buddha]] or [[Muhammad]] this wouldn't have gotten much of a second glance from anyone. I'm leaning towards agreeing with Anthropologist that this would be better suited for DYK. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 19:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I still dont understand where you get the whole Buddha business involved with this article. This isnt an article about a Buddha its an article about the worlds largest statue of Jesus. Its two totally different things and if someone nominates the worlds largest Buddha statue one day then that will be evaluated when that happens. Dont mix things up.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::We cant decline a article ITN just because of a feeling or a assumption of a case of precedent in the future. I dont like speculations as a reason for oppose actually.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>I think i could support if some one built a 33 meter Muhammad statue... epscially after the simple [[Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy|cartoons]] [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 19:58, 6 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>Fair point...I didn't think of that...I just picked two significant religious people at random without thinking of how the statue would be received...maybe Moses would have been a better choice. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 20:05, 6 November 2010 (UTC)</small>
::::<small>I follow your meaning ;) I just thought it was humorous becuase you were you arguing about a double standard by giving a double standard. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 20:21, 6 November 2010 (UTC) </small>
:'''Oppose''' because if we include this we'd be forced to include the tallest statue of Buddha, the tallest of George Washington, or any old historical (or not) figure. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 20:02, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::Dont see your point. Every article nominated here has to meet the ITN standards I guess. There is no precedent in this case. If we should have a precedent standard we could just as well drop the ITN section completely, because then all articles could set some sort of precedent.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 20:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::My point is, what makes ''this one'' so significant? Because it's Jesus? Nope. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 20:52, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::What makes this one notable is that it is the tallest statue of Jesus in the world. Its as simple as that. But we have different opinions obviously. And you point towards a precedent case which I dont agree with either, we are not forced to include George Washington statues if it that particular article doesnt meet the ITN standards, thats it. Anyway.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 20:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::No. This is notable because it is the biggest statue of Jesus; the biggest statue of me would be just as notable, along that same thought. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 05:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Also, it appears as if there is some [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101106/ap_on_re_eu/eu_poland_giant_jesus debate] over actually how tall the thing is. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 15:37, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Big statues have some inherent notability, IMHO. We've run stories about big buildings before now. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I agree.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::What? Big statues have inherent notability? I call them roadside attraction interesting to be sure but Not "News." Not even sure if it would survive and AFD. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 00:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', a bit of light relief from our usual diet of death and elections. I don't accept the "precedent" argument: we don't '''''have''''' to post anything, after all. Any Big Buddha nomination would have to stand on it's own two feet (or perhaps just sit serenely). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' when the article is up to standards. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 20:58, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*I have now '''Expanded''' the article somewhat.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:Now I think people can be more satisfied with the articles lenght etc.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - nice story. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' The article reads like a bad translation of the Polish article. --[[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 00:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. The new statue is barely 3m (10%) taller than the iconic ''[[Christ the Redeemer (statue)|Christ the Redeemer]]'' in Rio. Added to the fact the article is awfull, I see no point in advertising this rather small feat to the world. I would support maybe 1/3 taller, but frankly, breaking a record height by 3m is something only worth taking notice of when you are adding it to an already 3-400m tall building. [[User:MickMacNee|MickMacNee]] ([[User talk:MickMacNee|talk]]) 01:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::So 3m is relevant when it is <1%, but not when it is 10%: hmmmm.   Because of the influence of the legacy of the man/myth/incarnation (read according to your own conviction), and the proliferation of representaions of him (the person most represented in art, I strongly suspect), a tallest statue of Jesus could indeed merit special consideration, <u>but</u>, at 33m, it is 1.2 m shorter than the [[Cristo de la Concordia]] in Cochabamba, so '''oppose''' [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 09:37, 7 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::It's 36 metres. Not 33. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 09:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::::"The statue is 33 metres (108 ft) tall": that's what you get for trusting Wikipedia... [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 10:18, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. I don't see what's so notable about it. It's a large statue. DYK-worthy, but not news. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 02:21, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' just another big statue which serves no useful purpose. in this case size definitely does not matter.  DYK maybe.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 02:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Neutral'''. In terms of the [[List of statues by height|world's tallest statues]], it doesn't even make the top 40. It is the largest statue in Poland, though, if that's considered noteworthy... '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 06:17, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''--a bit on the trivial side, article is still rudimentary, and it doesn't even have a photo of the statue.  The picture of the construction scaffolding would be better left off.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' Nothing interesting. There are lots of statues; and there are more newsworthy things than this. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 13:33, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. 'The biggest statue of X' isn't important on its own, just because it's X, regardless of what X is. 'One of the world's 10 biggest statues' would have been significant, but this isn't. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 21:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' I would be neutral if there was a good image of this statue, compensating for its lack of real notability. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 03:50, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Opppose''' Its just a big statue of christ, nothing else. --[[User:Trust Is All You Need|TIAYN]] ([[User talk:Trust Is All You Need|talk]]) 05:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

====North Korea Olympics ban====
After being found guilty of age falsification during the [[2004 Athens Olympics]], North Korea has received a two year ban from the [[International Gymnastics Federation]] which will make them ineligble for the [[2012 London Olympics]]. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oly_gym_underage_gymnasts] '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 04:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. It's not an "Olympics ban". It's merely a suspension from all FIG events, including gymnastics at the Olympics. The country's still free to enter the Olympics. Furthermore, countries get suspended by international federations all the time, and we don't normally post them. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 04:58, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Exactly as Strange Passerby says{{mdash}}a nation is banned from competing in a particular set of events for two years, two years in which the next Olympics happens to fall. So what? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Not really an Olympic ban as others say, and [[North Korea at the Olympics]] says they have only won two gymnastics medals in total. Although both were gold, in 1992 and 2008, it still seems like this will not have much impact on the 2012 Olympics. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:38, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 eruption of Mount Merapi]] (re-nomination)====
A re-nomination of [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/October_2010#Mount_Merapi_erupts|26 October 2010]]. Now, more then 100 deaths. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' alot news coverage. Many reactions. ITN worthy.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:51, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong support'''. This is an ongoing event and claimed ''way'' more lives than the Eyafjallajokull eruption that also disrupted flights and was posted multiple times. The article could use a minor re-write though. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 18:00, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' flights to and from Jakarta apear to be disrupted now. The article could do with a polish, but it more than meets our basic requirements. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 18:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. Flights [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11704165 suspended]. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*OK, this seems to be going somewhere now. Anyone care to suggest a blurb? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:22, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. Discussion has had a while and there was a fair bit of support in the now-archived first nomination. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  00:17, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' The disruption of flights is obviously problematic for those affected directly or indirectly but it doesn't seem we're talking about anything near the scale of the [[Air travel disruption after the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption]] and this time we have quite a number of deaths (as mentioned in the article) so are we not potentially sending the wrong message by just mentioning the flight disruptions? [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 07:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''': the current blurb reads like a calculated insult to those directly impacted upon by this tragedy.  In the face of scores of deaths and thousends of people made homeless, Wikipedia's front page bleats about disruption to flights!  I'm ashamed of the project.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 09:21, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::Frankly, I think you need to grow a thicker skin. The flights are the main focus of the story at the moment on both the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11704165 BBC] (international coverage) and [http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/SEAsia/Story/STIStory_600191.html The Straits Times] (regional coverage) for example, not the deaths. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 09:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I thought Wikipedia was above linguistic insularity. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 10:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with Kevin, actually. The eruptions are notable for their tragic impacts, not the interruptions of air traffic. We should focus on the greatest impact to people's lives. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 09:33, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I feel the current blurp miss two important points: deaths and evacuation. Is it too much to get those also included? Opions and blurp suggestions? --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:44, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Note''' The related comments at [[Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors]]. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Haitian cholera outbreak]] (re-nomination)====
A re-nomination of [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/October_2010#Haitian_cholera_outbreak|28 October 2010]] and [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/October_2010#Cholera_Outbreak_in_Haiti|22 October 2010]]. Now almost 500 deaths. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:31, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Blurp draft''' ''[[2010 Haitian cholera outbreak|'''An outbreak''']] of [[cholera]] has occurred in the [[Saint-Marc]] region of [[Haiti]], killing at least 442 people and hospitalizing thousands more.'' --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 14:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' ''only if'' Hurricane Tomas isn't posted or is posted together with this blurb. No need for two separate Haiti-related entries. This should take precedence over Tomas because of the death toll, imo. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 16:16, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:That rationale doesn't make much sense to me. We don't tie two almost entirely unrelated events into one blurb for convenience. Also, FWiW, the Tomas blurb doesn't mention Haiti specifically. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  16:46, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' ITN next.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 18:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. Too many deaths. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. It probably would have gone up last time had it not been for the state of the article which is less than perfect even now, but enough to meet minimum standards for ITN and hopefully the MP exposure will result in improvements. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  03:45, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 5==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 5]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 5}}
{{cob}}
----
==== Pakistan suicide attacks ====
I know we've come to a loose agreement that terrorist incidents in volatile regions are not generally ITN-worthy, but 70 deaths in a suicide bombing an grenade attacks on two mosques in north-western Pakistan seems quite a high death toll. [http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Pakistan-More-Than-70-Killed-In-Bomb-And-Grenade-Explosions-At-Mosques-In-Northwest-Pakistan/Article/201011115795636?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15795636_Pakistan:_More_Than_70_Killed_In_Bomb_And_Grenade_Explosions_At_Mosques_In_Northwest_Pakistan (Sky News)]. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''', 70 is a lot, even for Pakistan. The fact that they were attacks on mosques makes me want to say "is nowhere sacred?", but without wanting to make a cheap joke out of it. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' and oppose the loose agreement.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 03:20, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', very significant death toll and location (a mosque). Also oppose this "loose agreement", as a death in a volatile region is worth just as much, if not more than a death in a stable region. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 03:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''.....where's the article? [[User:Mar4d|Mar4d]] ([[User talk:Mar4d|talk]]) 07:55, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::There: [[2010 Darra Adam Khel mosque bombing]]... [[User:Mar4d|Mar4d]] ([[User talk:Mar4d|talk]]) 08:23, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Great start. It'll need a little more information (including background) and more references before it can go up, though. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  12:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. ITN next for this.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:51, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. 70 deaths from 2 attacks would be significant just about anywhere. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:35, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:Article still needs work, though. I'll have a look at it later if I get chance but it only needs another good paragraph or two shorter ones and some more sources for verification and copyright reasons. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  21:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support''' significant death toll.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 02:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Weak oppose''' Pakistan is rather over-represented on WP:ITN. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 10:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Oppose''' ''70 deaths from 2 attacks would be significant just about anywhere''... except AfPak. AfPak is over-represented in the ITN anyways. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 03:45, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

==== Barack Obama's tour of Asia====
* [[Barack Obama]] arrives in [[Barack Obama's visit to India|India]] on first leg of tour of four countries in Asia.[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/06/world/asia/06india.html (NYT)], [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5izd5o6zcgmMAOOqD3k1QdZBiZfJg?docId=8427e3667fa04e729137d51bfc52ec20 (AP)]--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 21:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Many heads of state go on tours. Why is this one notable? '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 22:22, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:If this is just a visit, then '''oppose'''. If he becomes the first POTUS to visit somewhere or do something or it otherwise becomes something other than routine, then maybe. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  23:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Stong oppose'''. Could anybody explain, what is significant here? Such visits of the state leaders are common every day, and there is no place for them in the ITN template.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 23:16, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:: well the head of state of worlds oldest democracy visiting worlds largest democracy, staying at a hotel which was the site of [[2008 Mumbai attacks]] and then going to address a joint session of [[Parliament of India]] is pretty notable IMO.  And I havent mentioned that he will then also visit worlds largest Muslim country ( Indonesia), attend [[G20]] meeting in South Korea and then address [[APEC]] meeting in Japan.  at the risk of  violating [[WP:CRYSTAL]] I would guess this will be "in the news" for days to come even if Mr Obama doesnt solve the problem of world hunger or usher in world peace.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 23:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::[[Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson|Grímsson]] is in India? The U.S. is not the "world's oldest democracy". Be serious. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 06:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' just because he is Obama and he is staying in a hotel doensn't make this all that notable. Many different heads of state/government will be making the rounds around Asia due to the G20 summit. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 23:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. Travelling around the world is part and parcel of being an elected head-of-state (or government). It's a bit like making speeches: of course they make speeches, that's part of what we pay them to do! [[Barack Obama's visit to India]] may well need to be sent to AfD to see if it meets WP notability guidelines. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:57, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. Definitely not. Nothing unusual about a head of state conducting a tour of other countries. Attending the G20 and APEC? Plenty of other leaders do that. And plenty of other leaders (including US Secretary of State Clinton) have visited Muslim countries before. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 03:30, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment'''Objecting to this on the grounds that state visits happens 'all the time' is a little bit lacking in perspective.  Obama is easily the world's most notable and recognizable political leader.  He's visiting the 2nd largest country in the world, and is going to address its parliament.  Political visits of this magnitude do not happen 'all the time'.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 08:15, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::I don't know how he's "easily" the world's most notable political leader. He hasn't really accomplished anything of note, as far as I can tell. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 08:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - Routine and trivial, will almost certainly fail the AfD anyways. [[User:Tarc|Tarc]] ([[User talk:Tarc|talk]]) 13:39, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' - Dont know why it was brought up in the first place. This has little important to world and is a routine visit. Maybe next time when Obama visits Pakistan, we should have a headline. If anything, Pakistan is more important to the War on Terror on world security.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Muscoviteinheaven|Muscoviteinheaven]] ([[User talk:Muscoviteinheaven|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Muscoviteinheaven|contribs]]) 18:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*'''Oppose''' since every tour by an elected head of state/government cannot be posted and this does not appear to be any more significant than usual. Article is at AfD as well. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:28, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' per above. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 22:20, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::Obama has just [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11711007 publicly backed India's bid to be a permanent member of the UN security council].  Pretty big news, makes the tour much more notable.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:55, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 North-West Malaysian floods|Malaysian floods]]====

Floods in Malaysia have indundated almost an entire State ([[Perlis]]) and much of another ([[Kedah]]) in water, with 50,000 people evacuating. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''': I'm in [[Langkawi]] at the moment, actually, so I'm experiencing bits of it. It's certainly affecting a great deal of people, but Malaysia is pretty used to flooding. The [http://www.met.gov.my/images/pdf/press_statement/hujanlebat_06112010_bi.pdf official report] from the Meteorological Department is that the worst has passed. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 07:47, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. seems notable enough. ITN.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:52, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support'''. Major flood, but I didn't see updates on the China flood, killing over 3,000, the other recent floods in countries such as Colombia and Thailand that have claimed hundreds of lives, or the smaller flooding events taking dozens of casulties in the Philippines and Vietnam, and some of those events don't even have articles. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 17:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. Lots of damage, death and devastation. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 19:30, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Note'''- the floods were actually caused by a tropical depression which later intensified into the currently active [[Cyclone Jal|Severe Cyclonic Storm Jal]]. I'll be adding the info into the cyclone's article shortly. Also, I believe this warrants a merge of the floods into Jal's article since it was the cause. [[User:Cyclonebiskit|Cyclonebiskit]] ([[User talk:Cyclonebiskit|talk]]) 19:51, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::A merge wouldn't be warranted (1) it was the storm that later developed into the cyclone, not the cyclone itself, that caused the floods; but more importantly, (2) the localised effects of the floods is more important than their cause, and should be sufficient for coverage in separate articles. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 19:55, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually a tropical depression is a type of tropical cyclone, but i agree a merge isnt required.[[User:Jason Rees|Jason Rees]] ([[User talk:Jason Rees|talk]]) 20:11, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

====Phil Woolas====
Labour's '''[[Phil Woolas]]''' is stripped of his position as MP for [[Oldham East and Saddleworth (UK Parliament constituency)|Oldham East and Saddleworth]] after being found guilty of breaching the [[Representation of the People Act 1983]] in the [[United Kingdom general election, 2010]]. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 18:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:No. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#00824A;">Jolly</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#2A5FFF;">Ω</span>]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#00824A;">Janner</span>]]''' 18:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Please do not add simple "support" or "oppose" votes. Explain the reasons why the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.'' - It is very rare for a sitting MP to be stripped of his position by a Court of Law in the UK. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 18:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:I'm leaning towards support on this one, because I imagine a similar situation here in America would get quite a lot of attention (then again, it would probably be removed after posting by the typical stream of OMG a US politician is on the MP rants).  However, I'll defer my decision to the Brits on this one, since they're more likely to know what matters there. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  18:51, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' (COI disclaimer: I'm British). An election being annulled because a candidate has lied seems like a story of general interest, beyond the boundaries of the UK. But we need to be careful of the blurb: Woolas hasn't been stripped of his position as an MP yet. The court has ruled that the election is invalid. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 19:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::The immediate effect of the election being ruled invalid is that Woolas is stripped of his position as an MP. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 19:33, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::That's not my reading of the story. The UK "Constitution" doesn't really have much precedent for this, and the Speaker of the House of Commons is due to make a statement on Monday (presumably to say what he's decided the "Constitution" says about it). Still, the story's obviously not going up anyway, so no need to worry! [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 22:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Why do you keep putting "constitution" in those snide [[scare quotes]]? The [[British constitution]] is not a fictional entity simply because it is not codified in a single document. [[Special:Contributions/87.112.46.56|87.112.46.56]] ([[User talk:87.112.46.56|talk]]) 09:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' this is purely a domestic issue; he is simply a member of Parliament. If people are so against putting up the California election there is simply no way this can be considered. A MP being stripped of his position is not international news in the slightest. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 19:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[WP:OTHERSTUFF]] [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#161616;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 19:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If we actually listened to that here, shit would never get done. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 22:49, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't think that the California elections are the right comparison. In terms of unusual election fraud, this story is closer to the [[Rod Blagojevich]] story (which we posted). Insofar as it touches on freedom of speech in election campaigns, it is closer to ''[[Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission]]'' (which we posted). It is not simply a "domestic" story because it occurs in the UK, nor would it be had it occurred in the US. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::You cannot compare the dismissal of a MP of a rather small UK constituency to the dismissal of the governor of a state that has twelve million people in it. He is one of 300+ MPs in Britain while Blagojevich was one of fifty governors. They are not comparable. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 23:16, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::There ''650'' MPs in the UK's House of Commons. If people think one out of 435 for 300 million people insignificant, how about one in 650 for 60 million... &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 02:37, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, yes I can compare the case the to [[Rod Blagojevich]] and ''[[Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission]]'', as I did. I find both the comments quite offensive. We have a story (which I quite admit is not going to be posted) which concerns an election in a supposedly democratic country annulled because the candidate has been found to have lied in his campaign propaganda. That is is a story of general interest ''even though it didn't happen within the Fifty States and the associated territories''. How many other examples can you find of elections that have been annulled because a candidate has lied? You are allowed to look at a map that goes beyond the Fifty States if you wish... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Note: The Straits Times [http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/World/Story/STIStory_332122.html reported] Blago's impeachment. As far as I know the same newspaper hasn't reported this ouster. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 09:10, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::COI disclaimer: I'm Canadian, so you're accusations of American bias makes no sense and in turn are offensive to me. If the election of a MP in Canada were to be annulled, I would not believe that to be important enough for ITN. It is purely a domestic issue, regardless of whether or not it is of interest to an international crowd. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 05:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' First time in 99 years, but the position of MP isn't - in the grand scheme of things - important enough for this to be notable enough for ITN.  Besides, '''important to note''' Woolas is seeking an appeal.  There's no point posting this - even if it were notable - until after an appeal is completed. [[User:Franklinville|Franklinville]] ([[User talk:Franklinville|talk]]) 19:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::Is the position of state governor important enough in the grand scheme of things to be posted? We posted the [[Rod Blagojevich]] story because it was unusual, not because it was world changing: this story is also unusual, and should be considered on those merits. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 03:03, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I actually do think Blago's story shouldn't have been posted either, simply because he was just a governor.  I confess that unfortunate decision to post that story has created some precedent, but even under that precedent a governor is more important than a lowly MP. [[User:Franklinville|Franklinville]] ([[User talk:Franklinville|talk]]) 18:47, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' (COI disclaimer - I'm a Scot) Not notable enough for this section, I'm afraid. [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#161616;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 19:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' (COI disclaimer I am Texan) if this was the Congress man We wouldn't even be here. AND MAN these Brit Politicians are honest if this is the first in 99 years! [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 19:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Interesting, definitely, but not significant enough for ITN. The only real consequence is that there'll be a by-election, but that won't yield any shift in the balance of power. If there were multiple MPs or it was a cabinet minister, maybe, but not just one of the 300-odd MPs. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  20:15, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', no international significance. Would probably only be of such if it, per HJ, meant a shift of power, but that's not the case. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 03:35, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

====Cuban plane crash====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11700265 BBC] 60 dead apparently. Looks like it could be a notable event for ITN when an article is available. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#00824A;">Jolly</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#2A5FFF;">Ω</span>]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|<span style="color:#00824A;">Janner</span>]]''' 02:28, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' as per wp/itn standard rules. I started a page [[Aero Caribbean Flight 883|here]]. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 03:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' now [[Aero Caribbean Flight 883]] is available. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 07:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Even though it was a tin can ATR... actually, I think the A380 in Singapore is bigger news from an aviation prospective, but, this is still an almost full plane crashing.  (Everyone who has ever so much as seen one, much less flown one, knows ATR's are obsolete crap, whereas A380's have never had that kind of problem.)  [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 08:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC) 
::'''Comment:''' You are right, A-380 is more attractive news, however, if you look at the [[ATR-72#Operators|number]] of ATR-72s in service, it is a very significant piece of airtraffic gear... [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 10:51, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Comment''' Oh, perhaps we'll see Qantas there soon then, another engine "bang" on a 747 this time, just a day after the A380 engine fail.  Remember what ''[[Rain Man]]'' used to say... [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]].--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 10:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per nom--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 12:20, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' <s>when expanded.</s> --[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 12:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC) 
::'''Comment:''' what would you like to see expanded? It contains all that is available from the mainstream media. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 15:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually I think it's good to go now, but any expansion would probably make it more notable.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:11, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Currently the worst accident involving the ATR 72, 3rd worst in Cuba to date. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 16:59, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' and it's ready to post. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  17:51, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' Blurb suggestions? --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 17:54, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::''[[Aero Caribbean]] passenger plane from [[Santiago de Cuba]] en route to [[Havana]], '''[[Aero Caribbean Flight 883|crashes]]''' in the central [[Cuba]], killing all 68 on board.'' - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::''[[Aero Caribbean]] [[ATR-72|ATR-72-212]] passenger plane en route to [[Havana]], '''[[Aero Caribbean Flight 883|crashes]]''' in the central [[Cuba]], killing all 68 on board.'' --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 19:26, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::''[[Aero Caribbean]] '''[[Aero Caribbean Flight 883|Flight 883]]''' crashes in central [[Cuba]], killing all seven crew and 61 passengers on board. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 19:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

*'''Posted'''. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  19:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 4==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 4]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 4}}
{{cob}}
----

====Hurricane Tomas (re-nomination)====
[[Hurricane Tomas (2010)|Hurricane Tomas]] swept through the Windward Islands, killing 16 people in [[St. Lucia]].
Here's some more relavent information:
{{Collapsetop|Collpased for Readability}}
:[http://www.caymannewsservice.com/science-and-nature/2010/11/03/tomas-kills-14-st-lucia-heads-haiti State of emergency] in St. Lucia
:News reports by outlets from many countries in different continents; from [http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/61174/tropical-storm-heads-for-haiti New Zealand], the [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1326156/After-Hurricane-Tomas-St-Lucia-declares-state-emergency.html United Kingdom], [http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90852/7185638.html PR China], [http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,129992.html Trinidad and Tobago], [http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Tropical-Storm-Strengthens-Threatens-Haiti-106535279.html United States], [http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE6A03CA20101101 Reuters Africa], [http://www.smh.com.au/sport/stephanie-gilmore-one-heat-away-from-title-20101101-179ds.html Austrialia] and [http://www.france24.com/en/20101103-homeless-haitians-hurricane-tomas-cholera-earthquake-un France].
:Significant GDP loss in multiple nations, [http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1681 high chance of retirement (expert blog)]
:Evacuation effort in Haiti stalled by unrest from [http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFN0452108620101104 angry youths]
:Indirect flooding from Tomas causes 15 deaths, 35 missing, and a national [http://www.ticotimes.net/News/Daily-News/Escazu-Landslide-Leaves-at-Least-20-Dead-10-Missing-C.R.-on-Red-Alert_Thursday-November-04-2010 state of emergency] in Costa Rica (news source from Costa Rica)
:Jamaican Government [http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20101104/lead/lead6.html considering mandatory evacuations], despite no such law being in place
:[http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT1+shtml/042055.shtml? The entire country of Haiti] is under a hurricane warning, as well as the eastern tip of Cuba, the Turks and Caicos Islands and eastern Bahamas
:[http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/carb/flash-ir2.html Satellite imagery] shows heavy rains already impacting Haiti, although the centre of the circulation may locate either to the east or southwest of its present position, which would place a massive uncertainty in the forecast and possibly bring an extra day of rain to Haiti just as the trough picks up the storm
:More than [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40013751/ns/technology_and_science-science/ one million Hatians] threatened by the expanding storm system and potential for associated landslides
:[http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/haiti_56740.html UNICEF press report] notes that the cholera epidemic just recently crippled Haiti
:[http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gDIrhDjE4Q0aBiJiSM4ZaPrHEXIQ?docId=27c3cb77a266418ca423e8c0a13ed225 Earlier flooding] already killed a dozen people in the Haiti earthquake zone
:The [http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1678 inital formation (expert blog again)] of the storm was at an unprecedented location
{{Collapsebottom}}
:The ITN timer is red.
I suggest the following blurb:
*[[Hurricane Tomas (2010)|Hurricane Tomas]] brings heavy rains to [[Haiti]] and [[Jamaica]] after tracking through the [[Lesser Antilles]], killing 16 people in [[St. Lucia]], and bringing flooding that triggered landslides in [[Costa Rica]], killing 15 people, while the storm moved slowly in the Southwestern [[Caribbean Sea]].
~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 21:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
** A re-nomination of [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates#Hurricane_Tomas|2 November 2010]]. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:45, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''weak Support''' Timer is red and your [[WP:POINTY|overkill]] thing makes it clear its big. I some one will have to keep the death toll current as thats gonna change by the hour [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 22:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per my previous reasoning. This is still not a big hurricane, and the damage remains unexceptional. Just because the timer is red (it's only on 28 hours anyway) doesn't mean we should post something that wouldn't normally go up. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:43, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Floods in Colombia have killed 102 people, and Tomas' outer bands are either contributing to the rains or likely to worsen the flooding situation there. Also, I was not "creating disruption" in order to make a ''point'', but rather attempting to make a ''point-by-point'' summary of the information. TS Tomas is [[rapid deepening|rapidly strengthening]] and could regain hurricane status soon. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 23:57, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Then nominate the floods separately. Storms rapidly strengthen often, and we don't post all of them. That's not a good argument to post it. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 01:17, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' hurricane (too many of them get posted anyways) but possibly support a floods article. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 01:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Still no''' per Nergaal and per below. "Timer is red" is a really weak argument to post something that was previously opposed quite strongly. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 01:11, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Lead story on TV news in UK right now: Govt orders "hundreds of thousands to evacuate": that is not routine.  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:05, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:Just a note, the deaths in Costa Rica were the result of a trough near Tomas, not from the storm itself ([http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hurricanes/archives/2010/h2010_Tomas-Atlantic.html per NASA]). Also, three fatalities have been reported in Haiti and the largest refugee camp is currently flooded. [[User:Cyclonebiskit|Cyclonebiskit]] ([[User talk:Cyclonebiskit|talk]]) 16:59, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' No offense to anyone, but I just find the opposition ridiculous. Tomas is one of the costliest and most damaging hurricanes ever for Saint Lucia, and it is receiving ''significant'' media attention for this and for the Haiti direct hit. And this year had many storms posted in ITN because of the fact that many storms this year have been significant or noteworthy. That can't stop a storm which is definitely notable enough for ITN to go through.'''[[User:Darren23|<font color="Blue">Darren</font>]][[User talk:Darren23|<font color="red">23</font>]]'''<sup><span style="color:green">[[Special:Contributions/Darren23|<font color="green">Edits</font>]]|[[Special:EmailUser/Darren23|Mail]]</span></sup> 01:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''  C'mon, this is already a bad hurricane, $200 million is ITN worthy. It has been getting a lot of media attention as it is passing through Haiti, and we will likely have a death toll of around 75 (hope I am wrong here). The death toll is already 7 in Haiti.  Even if it dissipated a few days ago, it would still be ITN worthy IMO. [[User:Yellow Evan|Y]][[User talk:Yellow Evan|E]]  [[User:Yellow Evan/Jimena|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''T'''ropical</sup></font>]] [[Special:contributions/Yellow Evan|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''C'''yclone</sup></font>]] 02:51, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Per "Monetary losses have been estimated at nearly US$544 million". --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*Anybody care to suggest an up-to-date blurb? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  13:03, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Blurp draft''' ''[[Hurricane_Tomas_(2010)|'''Hurricane Tomas''']] hits [[Caribbean]], killing at least 24 people and causing destruction estimated to US$544 million.'' --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 14:21, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' - I see we've been swamped with support from the hurricane cabal. I'd hardly call that a consensus. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 16:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. We have a balance of editors whose interest here is in hurricanes vs those actively involved with ITN and I believe there is a consensus and this is attracting significant media attention. I'm also not convinced by the argument that this is not a "big hurricane" when it has apparently caused more than half a billion dollars' worth of damage. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  16:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Comment'''. This might be a bit OR, but I've posted a casualty toll on the talkpage. ~[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|<span style="color:blue;">A</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001|<span style="color:blue;">H</span>]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|<span style="color:blue;">1</span>]]<sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 17:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
*What is wrong with TC ITN articles in the first place? Tomas has a lot of media attention, and due to a record breaking season we got many ITN articles. We could have nominated a few more.
**Comments like this are just one of the reasons why people at ITN have been developing "hurricane fatigue" and are more willing to oppose tropical cyclones that do little. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 01:02, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
***I'll agree here. ITN doesn't mention every last major flood, or every ongoing drought, or heat wave, all of which can be deadlier than tropical cyclones. Just because it has a human name doesn't mean we should give it inflated importance. As for the canvassing, I don't think it was the case here, not explicitly at least (maybe just a mention of the ITN on IRC, perhaps). [[User:Hurricanehink|Hurricanehink]] (<small>[[User_talk:Hurricanehink|talk]]</small>) 01:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

====Hartley 2====
[[File:Comet Hartley 2.jpg|150px|thumb|right]]
*NASA's [[EPOXI]] mission successfully flies by comet '''[[103P/Hartley|Hartley 2]]'''. [http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1011/04epoxiflyby/ spaceflightnow.com] [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 15:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' interesting but not does not really strike me as signficant other then they went by each other and took pictures like it was designed to do. If theres a discovery from the images than we can post that but this does not strike me as ginificant. I am open to being swayed but I see routine Nasa Event.  [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 20:23, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support'''. Significant event, since this was indeed the EPOXI science target (not just a routine slingshot flyby, as Resident Anthropologist appears to be suggesting). However, it's not as big a deal as the original [[Deep Impact]] mission. On a related note, isn't the name of the spacecraft still Deep Impact, and EPOXI only relates to the name of the mission? That would affect the blurb phrasing. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 22:46, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''' per above.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 23:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

====Tadic visits site of [[Vukovar massacre]]====
*''Serbian President Boris Tadic commemorates the victims of the [[Vukovar massacre]] and apologized for the atrocity that occurred during the [[Croatian War of Independence]]''.[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11689153 BBC][http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/11/2010114105644570633.html Al-jazeera ] 

Major Reconciliatory move in Diplomatic relations between two states involved in one the ungliest wars of the 20th century [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:13, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', a major step for reconciliation between these two states. I'm sure there's precedent for this. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 17:32, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support''', a significant event, but the key article should be [[Vukovar massacre]].--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 20:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::I concur as it is the key article[[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 20:56, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. While the reconciliation step is nice and unprecedented, the real political consequences of this action are so far unclear. It is just a gesture that may lead to actual improvement of relations between former Yugoslavian countries, or may not lead, or may lead but only after a long time. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 20:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Normally I'd be with you, This aint Israeli-Palestine situation its not a empty gesture both news articles above  put this as an important Steps for both of them on the road EU statehood.[[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 21:19, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps the gesture is not empty, but we don't see anything substantial so far but good intentions of Serbs and Croatians. The connection with the road to EU statehood is not clear and not direct. I'd vote support if this would be the news about Serbia and Croatia joining the EU, or just the announcement of the exact date of joining, but this is far from that. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:52, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It's a President of an extremely nationalistic country (and with much criticism) admitting his county [[fuck|#$##]]-up in its nationalistic ferver of executing 263 civilians. So thats rare enough in my book for ITN [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 22:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Does this necessarily mean that Serbian politics will change soon, or the country will become less nationalistic? I am not sure about that. If there would be some compensation payed by Serbia to Croatians, or at least some kind of memorandum signed, that might be some substantial news. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' I was going to suggest this but I forgot. Any developments or resolutions outside AfPakIk or Israel are welcome. This is a notable event. Can somebody remind me if Obama's excuse for the Guatemalan prisoners experiments with syphilis was posted on the ITN (this is similar, but even more notable). [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 01:11, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:I'm undecided as of yet but I agree that reconciliatory gestures such as this are very significant, and noteworthy, even if they are only symbolic.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 08:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm sure that if and when the U.S. ever apologises for similar acts of atrocity (e.g. [[My Lai massacre|My Lai]], [[No Gun Ri massacre|No Gun Ri]]), it would no doubt feature on ITN. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 10:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::We had a similar nomination earlier where the Polish and Russian presidents were meeting in an act of reconciliation over the [[Katyn massacre]].  It was well-supported but then the Polish pres died in a plane crash.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 13:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' I support this. and the kosovo news from a few days ago.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 16:42, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Support'''. News of Obama's syphilis and Gordon Brown's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&diff=next&oldid=313209126 "inhumane" chemical castration] were both posted actually. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 06:02, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

====Qantas grounds A380s====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11691197 BBC] This is starting to become a big news. Due to malfunction in an engine in A380 mid flight, Qantas has grounded its fleet of A380. The flight landed safely but it looks like Singapore is following Qantas. Article is [[A380#Notable_incidents]]. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 14:31, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:I would support if another major airline (I guess only a major airline has the A380) or Airbus decide to ground more aircraft.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 14:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Not exactly a surprise that an airline would ground an aircraft type which had been involved in an incident. Incident itself is of questionable notability and is currently at AFD. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 15:10, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::well i dont think there needs to be an article for the incident. update in A380 page is pretty good and sufficient for ITN. Notability im not sure yet but it is major news in media atm atleast. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 15:14, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Conditional Oppose''' right now Singapore Airlines and Quantas have grounded theirs but the Airline with the most Airbuses [[Emirates (airline)]] has not grounded thiers yet. If Emirates (airline) grounds thiers also than I might be able to support. [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:20, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per the aboves.  It's not uncommon for planes to be grounded by an airline after such an incident. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  15:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' it seems like it's a bit [[WP:CRYSTAL]] to say it's serious at the moment: there's obviously a problem somewhere, but I'd only support something which lead to the entire fleet of A380s being grounded. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 16:25, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' until further developments. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 01:13, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 3==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 3]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 3}}
{{cob}}

====[[California gubernatorial election, 2010]]====
*[[U.S. Democratic Party|Democrat]] [[Jerry Brown]] '''[[California gubernatorial election, 2010|defeats]]''' [[U.S. Republican Party|Republican]] [[Meg Whitman]] to be elected [[governor of California]].
*:I know there has been objection in the past to posting governors' races (although I don't sympathize with anyone who makes out-and-out statements like no "subnational" election should be posted under any circumstances). However, considering California's huge population (more than Canada), the great number of readers from California on the site (about 6% of all readers based on [http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportPageViewsPerLanguageBreakdown.htm the Wikipedia Traffic Analysis Report] and California's percentage of the U.S. population) and the huge importance of state governments in the American federal system, we can assume there is enough reader interest for this item even if no one outside of California cares. However, I'm sure many people outside of California would care considering that Jerry Brown is a former presidential candidate and Meg Whitman a former eBay CEO. I think it would be ridiculous if we were to post elections for tiny, non-English-speaking countries like Tuvalu but not have California, the third-biggest governmental jurisdiction in the Anglosphere behind the U.S. federal government and the U.K. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 23:18, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:Its also in the 10 largest world economies (if it was a separate country). '''Support''' as it is a significant event that affects at least 6% of the readership directly. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::as it has been said before many many times readership is not an ITN criteria as thats pretty much like hardwiring systemic bias into ITN. either way '''strong oppose''' since it is not a federal level election and also we ''just'' posted midterm results. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 23:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose''' states can't engage in military action or foreign policy. They can do economics, but this is also restricted as this is heavily retricted by federal laws on industrial relations, taxation, minimum wages, monetary policy, tariffs, free trade etc. They don't tend to bail out banks and large factories like federal governments do. The economic ability of the California govt isn't noteworthy enough. In any country, economic fortunes are correlated to federal trends '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  00:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong Oppose''' as per YellowMonkey. <span style="font-weight:bold">[[User:Fixman|Fixman]] ([[User_Talk:Fixman|talk!]])</span> 00:11, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::I recognize state governments are not all-powerful, but think about what they can do: education, criminal law, welfare, corrections, economic development, environmental regulation, licensing, courts, policing, infrastructure, business regulation, public health, etc. Most Americans have little direct interaction with the federal government unless they're seniors, are in the military or work for Washington. Clearly, state governments are important enough to meet the importance criterion for ITN, if there is one, and California, at least, is big enough to meet the interest criterion. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 00:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes I know the state governments in many countries also have components of industrial relations and land txes as well, but they hardly get any analysis except laws in the federal legislature, for obvious reasons. And luckily only a small amount of people are affected by crime, compared to war. And things like building regulations and zoning aren't notable enough for ITN '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  00:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm sure Californians are far more likely to be affected by crime than by war, as are most people. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 01:17, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' subnational election with no international significance. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 00:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Oppose''' for all the above and really? the cannabis prop I expected this I did not[[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 01:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::''Mwalcoff never ceases to amaze... '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  01:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The article [[California gubernatorial election, 2010]] has a single paragraph of prose btw.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 01:45, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''', per the many ''many'' discussions we've had about this. The various state governors have been discussed in at least three separate places (plus this one) just for this set of elections alone, and many times in the past. They have no place in ITN, and have rightly faced almost universal opposition. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 03:45, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong Support''' This isn't one of those elections the Democrats stole.  Those nutcases actually voted fro a third dose of Brown.  When a bankrupt state decides to commit suicide en masse, it's notable.[[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 04:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Oppose''' Put simply, this is just a gubernatorial election, regardless of the population involved. [[User:Franklinville|Franklinville]] ([[User talk:Franklinville|talk]]) 04:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Oppose''' if this was happening alone, without the biannual elections it would have been worth it. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 04:57, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Strong Oppose.''' Nothing special. Such electins are common in many countries in the world almost every week. To document this means to document all of the elections, which is insane.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 10:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Strong oppose''', state election, hardly any article, no significance. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 10:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. Really, Mwalcoff, you should have known not to nominate this given the long discussions about the recent U.S. elections results. There was very little support then, so how could you hope to get a consensus in favour of posting now? Time-wasting nomination verging on [[WP:POINT]]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 11:33, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Let's not discourage nominations.  The majority of candidates nominated here are not posted.  This will be one of them.  Nothing wrong with that.  Editors should not be afraid to nominate items on the belief they won't be supported.  And one of the discussions earlier Mwalcoff started on the [[WT:ITN]] did not receive many (any?) direct opposes to the idea.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 11:56, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::California Bill was opposed below, in the Midterm discussion below it was widely opposed to have any governers also in the talk page it was discouraged quite a bit. I dont like to discourage nominations either but i am going to go with Physchim62 on this one. repeating same thing over and over ''knowing'' it will get shot down is a waste of time especially if its not a new editor nominating. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 14:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I disagree that it was a certainty it would have gotten 'shot down'.  On a different day a different group of editors might have been browsing ITNR and maybe a few would have supported.  I wonder if some editors are refraining from posting support because they already see several strong opposes and don't want to argue.  (one editor expressed such a view at [[WT:ITN]]).  As for time wasting to prove a point I would equally point to people who piled on 8th, 9th, or 10th opposes when it was already clear that this nomination was not going to reach a consensus to post.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 14:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
How about a compromise? We could easily append a note on all the other elections in the US to the end of the current blurb. Is there an umbrella article that lists all the elections? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  19:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:[[United States gubernatorial elections, 2010]] (FWIW I '''Support''' mentioning them) [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  19:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::That link is already in the blurb, with the wording 'midterm elections'.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 20:25, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:For what it's worth at this point, I would '''strongly support''' tweeking the current blurb to either mention every election that took place (senate, governor and HOR) or changing it to a main page that includes a link to each. I don't know if the election of a governor is ITN material by itself, but there is no reason why it cannot be included in the current blurb. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 22:32, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Every election that took place? There were 39 gubernatorial elections, 37 Senate elections and 435 House elections. That's a little...bloaty. --[[User:Smashville|'''Smashville''']][[User Talk:Smashville|<sup style="color:#03F">talk</sup>]] 22:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I knew someone was going to misunderstand what I meant. I meant every level of elections; the gubernatorial, the Senate and the HOR. I don't see why we can't mention/link to all three. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 22:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I reject the assertion that I am somehow violating WP:POINT by nominating the governorship of a state of 37 million people. You can agree or disagree with it, but it is hardly out of bounds, especially when we post far-less-significant elections. I had thought that there would be at least a little more support for this nomination. I know some others have a different perception of what makes a good ITN item, yet I don't understand how they come to their conclusions. Perhaps if someone could explain to me how something like a statewide election in California doesn't meet the ITN criteria (other than by having an underdeveloped article), or how it meets the ITN criteria less than an election in Tuvalu, I might feel differently, but until then, I'm going to keep trying to improve ITN. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 22:50, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:There's a fundamental difference between Tuvalu and California: one is a country, whilst the other is just one state of one country.  Regardless of the population involved, it's still just a state.  If were to post elections on sub-national entities, [[Uttar Pradesh]] - with a population of around 190 million - has a far greater claim to ITN than California's 37 million. [[User:Franklinville|Franklinville]] ([[User talk:Franklinville|talk]]) 12:25, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm unsure where I stand on the US governors items but I'm pretty darn sure ITN can do without elections of Tuvalu's (in)significance.  If anything, the fact that we post elections of such small nations (come on, it's 14000) really strengthens the argument that US state elections ought to be posted as well.  This idea that Tuvalu deserves posting and California doesn't is frankly [[absurd]].  And regarding California, I'm pretty sure the [[Governator]]'s election would have been posted had ITN been around back then.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 13:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Aside'''  that is so fricken cool that [[Governator]] redirects to [[Arnold Schwarzenegger|Arnie]].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 13:09, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2 November 2010 Baghdad bombings]]====
113 killed. Please see the discussion Nov 1 - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 15:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Support'''. A significant report, which receives attention. Sounds terrific with such death toll.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 17:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:this is the 3rd in 3 days. I suggest creating a single blurb that says something similar to "in a series of bombings" and point it to list of bombings. clearly we cant post them all. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 19:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' ooff....too big to be ignored. [[User:Mar4d|Mar4d]] ([[User talk:Mar4d|talk]]) 12:32, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. More then 100 deaths. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 19:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. This should go up as soon as possible. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 06:30, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Blurb draft'''. ''[[2 November 2010 Baghdad bombings|'''A series of bomb attacks''']] in [[Baghdad]], [[Iraq]], kills at least 113 and injures 300 people.'' --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:50, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
: '''Comment'''. [[2010 Baghdad church attack]] entry could be removed. Since the 2 November article links to that article in the lead. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 13:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

====Constitutional referendum in Niger====
*passes with 90 percent approval bringing the end to Junta Rule [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11684547 BBC] [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 13:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:You mean Nigeri'''<u>e</u>'''n. No junta in Nigeria. Have you seen the "[[Nigerien constitutional referendum, 2010|article]]" though? ;) '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 14:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Facepalm''' never mind.... Learned Some Geography.... I thought it was spelling variation.... [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 18:35, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just change the word order and say Constitutional Referendum in Niger instead of Nigerian Constitutional Referendum.--[[User:Avala|Avala]] ([[User talk:Avala|talk]]) 22:57, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. ITN worthy.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:55, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

====Death of [[Viktor Chernomyrdin]]====
[[File:Viktor Chernomyrdin-1 ITN.jpg|80px|right|Photo of Viktor Chernomyrdin from www.kremlin.ru]]
Former Prime Minister of Russia (1992-98), Acting President 1996, dies at age 72. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 12:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Former head of government, and an obvious major figure during the Chechen War. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:59, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Support''', per Night w. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 13:09, 3 November 2010 (UTC) 
'''Oppose''', not a significant figure. The president of Russia, (in that time, Boris Yeltsin) changed 6 prime ministers in 8 years, during 1991-1999. One of those 6 was Mr. Chernomyrdin. He was acting president of Russia for 1 day only. [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 14:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::The news ([http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101103/161192240.html 1], [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/world/europe/04chernomyrdin.html?_r=1 2], [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=7873 3]) disagree with you. You also neglected to mention that Chernomyrdin was Prime Minister during all but 2 of those 8 years. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 14:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Chernomyrdin was Prime Minister of Russia for a longer time than any other Russian Prime Minister, about 6 years. Chernomyrdin was the founder of [[Gazprom]] company (the largest extractor of natural gas in the world and the largest Russian company - this alone is enough to feature him on the ITN). Chernomyrdin played a major role in many important events in 1990s (both in Russia and internationally), and in 2000s he was ambassodor in Ukraine for 8 years. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 14:45, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Suggested blurb''': '''[[Viktor Chernomyrdin]]''', the longest-serving [[Prime Minister of Russia|Prime Minister]] of [[Russia]] (1992-98) and founder of [[Gazprom]] company, dies at age 72.
:The fact that he was Acting President for a day in 1996 is indeed not so notable. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 14:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::<s>'''Oppose''' for now.</s>  Article is not in great shape and there is only a one sentence update on his death.  Even if that's sorted, I'm not really sure.  He was a highly visible figure in Russian politics for around 3-4 years.  He was acting president for a day, and probably had a great deal of responsibility at other times as Yeltsin was often in poor health (or drunk) during that time. He once attended a [[G-8]] conference in Yeltsin's place.  But really he dropped out of sight pretty much in the late 90s.  I don't think he's had a real lasting legacy for Russia.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You are pretty much wrong. Chernomyrdin was the second man in Russian politics throughout 1990s. He didn't drop out of sight in the late 90s, though of course his role diminished when he ceased to be the Prime Minister. Nevertheless, according to Russian sources ([http://lenta.ru/articles/2010/11/03/chernomyrdin/]) it was Chernomyrdin in 1999 who persuaded [[Slobodan Miloshevich]] to surrender and to pass [[Kosovo]] under NATO control. And he did have a real lasting legacy for Russia - he founded [[Gazprom]] (a champion of Russian economy), he played a great role in the transition to market economy, and he also contributed dozens of popular idioms to [[Russian language]]. There is expected a live broadcast of his funeral on main Russian TV channels - as far as I remember, only the funerals of [[Boris Yeltsin]] and [[Patriarch Alexy II]] (both deaths featured on the ITN) were granted the same level of public attention. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 16:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OK, I'll concede the Gazprom bit, that's pretty significant.  Still, I'm not sure if I'd call his role in Russia's transition to market economy 'central', I'd give [[Gaidar]] more credit for that.  I'd still say he pretty much dropped out of sight after the 90s. Still, I'll switch to '''support'''.  Article looks improved.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 16:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::''Article is not in great shape and there is only a one sentence update on his death.'' > Article seems to be not bad, though there is much room for expansion, of course. As for the additional information on his death, I think that me and perhaps other users will add it soon. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 16:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::The article is not that bad <s> but much of the notability you've mentioned is ''not in the article''.  There's a brief mention that he was 'elected chairman' of Gazprom, with no details on his role in its growth.  The bit about Milosovich isn't mentioned at all.  Those details should be in there, if they are an argument for his notability.</s>--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I've inserted the bit on Miloshevich into the article, as well as entire section on Gazprom. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 17:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per both the comments above. Only acting president for 1 day. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  16:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::He was the head of government for > 6 years. We post those kinds of deaths, especially for one as notable as Chernomyrdin. Even his founding of [[Gazprom]] makes his impact on Russia greatly notable in my opinion. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 16:10, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::[[Gazprom]] is important on [[Europe]]an and even on world scale, so we shouldn't speak of exclusively his impact on Russia. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 16:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' significant political figure in a big country. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 16:12, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Strong Support'''. It's news №1 in Russia. --[[User:TarzanASG|TarzanASG]] ([[User talk:TarzanASG|talk]]) 16:20, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Comment'''. The lead of the article and the section on death have been updated. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 16:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:[[Viktor_Chernomyrdin#Career]] is still pathetic.  [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  16:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, it needs much expansion and better style, but still it reflects the main points of Chernomyrdin's biography. I don't have much time to work on the article right now, but I'm sure that it will be expanded in the course of the next few days. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 17:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Strong support'''. Chernomyrdin was a key figure in the Russian natural gas production and its export, which comprises large part of the Russian economy today. Gazprom is the largest compnay based on equity in the world. It is completely wrong to consider him only a politician who has been the longest serving Prime Minister since, though it's also important.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 17:08, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:If we're using his role in the founding of Gazprom as a key argument for his notability, there needs to be more than ''one sentence'' in his article about that.  An awful lot of the notability being expressed here is not adequately expressed in the article.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::Look at the proposed blurb above. It's pretty good. My argument is that he was not only a politician as discussed above, and his role in Gazprom should be equated with his political duty.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 17:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::<s>The blurb is fine--the article isn't.  Someone who didn't know much about Russian history wouldn't be able to understand how notable he was from his wiki bio.</s>--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::The article has been further expanded. [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 17:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Yes, it's much better.  Good work Greyhood.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::That's right Greyhood. Great job. I wonder why such discussions exist only when the topic is related with Russian people. Last time, it was the death of [[Andrei Voznesensky]]. Really strange.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 17:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Ah, I don't think there's any particular problem with Russia topics.  We run into these problems with any politician from outside the Anglosphere. The articles tend to be less developed; it's harder to find sources due to language issues; editors have less interest in the topics; etc.  Russia is one of the biggest countries outside the Anglosphere, and certainly has been the most politically powerful over the last 50 years, so it's more likely to produce candidates than, say, Bangladesh.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:54, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I appreciate the work that was done in improving the usage of the ITN template, which documents not only Anglo-related reports, as was usual in the past. But still, there is a little POV, which protracts the whole discussion, apparently due to the different cultures and the different interests.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 18:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC) 
:::::::Well, I've not been long enough on the ITN board to judge on how Russia topics are discussed here. Unfortunately many Russian-related articles are indeed in rather poor shape, and there are various reasons for such a situation (Russian users preferring the Russian Wikipedia, the lack of good English language sources on some Russian topics, the ill-famous [[WP:EEML]] activity etc.). [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 18:06, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::A lot of debates on politicians are contentious.  See Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, Ted Stevens.  And deaths in general create a lot of debate.  [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  18:10, 3 November 2010 (UTC) 
::::::::::I think the difficulty of overcoming [[Wikipedia:Systemic bias|systemic bias]] will always make the whole front page, not just ITN, with a bit of POV.  Many editors are vocal in saying that the en.wiki ''should'' show preference to stories of interest to English speakers.  But let's not be to quick to blame the protracted debate (and for ITN, this debate had hardly any controversy) on it being a non-anglo issue.  Ted Kennedy's nomination received strong opposition last year before being posted; posting the death of [[Alexander Haig]] was not uncontroversial.  All in all, we've posted the deaths of three Russsian politicians recently--this one, [[Yaneyev]], and [[Yegor Gaidar]].  Not bad for Russia.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Posting. The article has been sufficiently expanded. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 17:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
How about we use the pic?--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 17:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:Good note. Could any admin insert it?--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 18:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::: The Boehner picture for the US Congressional elections blurb just got added. So I would wait a bit just so we don't switch pictures too quickly. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 18:30, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yeah, we'll probably have to leave that pic up for a bit.  Pro-US bias wins again :-).  But really, it's more notable.  Boehner is the speaker of the house ''right now'' while Chernomyrdin is a guy who was in an office of power over a decade ago.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 18:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::It's always good to leave pics up for 24&nbsp;hours, because good pics are even harder to find than good blurbs. Editors can ping at [[WP:ERRORS]] if they think it's time to swap over the images. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 20:09, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:I have reservations about the image - it isn't strictly speaking a CC3.0 licence and the attribution requirement as set out in the Russian government's permission "that any reproduction or broadcasting of the website's materials contain a reference to the original source". I question whether click-through attribution suffices for this - it may need to be given on each page that the image is "reproduced" (here, on the main page).--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 20:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::As far as I know there is no such problem with kremlin.ru files. You may address [[User:Russavia]] (who uploaded most of the  kremlin.ru files) or admin [[User:Alex_Bakharev]] with this issue, if you like. Anyway, we may place attribution on the Main Page the way I've done it right now on this talk page (put mouse on the image, no need to click). [[User:Greyhood|<font color="darkgrey">Grey</font><font color="grey">Hood</font>]] [[User talk:Greyhood|<font color="black"><sup>Talk</sup></font>]] 21:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't believe there's a problem. We've had CC3.0 images on the MP before with the standard click-through attribution and I'm pretty sure we've had at least one Kremlin image. I also note that it's not attributed directly in Chernomyrdin's article so I don't think there would be an issue with it when it's decided it's time to switch the images. As an aside, the connection between the current image and the item to which it relates is very tenuous imo. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  01:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Except that it's not CC3.0; the letter of permission makes that explicitly clear. The Kremlin has set its own terms of attribution, as stipulated in the letter. It may very well be a problem with the article, as well.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 02:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

====[[2010 Serbia earthquake]]====
2 killed, 50 injured after a 5.3 earthquake. Media reports said the hardest hit area was around the town of Kraljevo where the earthquake destroyed or damaged buildings and left parts of the city without electricity, running water or telephone lines. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 08:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''oppose''' 2 killed in 5.3 is unusual. The Damage is not unusual for a 5.3 though [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 12:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' As I recall, the earthquake intensity scales being logarithmic means that this 5.3 earthquake is many times smaller than even a 6.5 (somewhere between 10 and 20 times smaller and between 32 and 1000 times less energy released), and there are even some 6.5s that hit populated areas that we don't post, as I recall (although that might be because they were never nominated...I can't remember for sure). [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 15:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 2==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 2]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 2}}
{{cob}}
----
====Death of [[Andy Irons]]====
'''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  03:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:Why would this be notable? [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 03:52, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::He was a global leader in his field and died unexpectedly when he was still at top level. Ayrton Senna was also three-times WC and active when he was killed '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]''' (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:#FA8605;">bananabucket!</span>]]'') 05:35, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::The blond surfer dude at TMZ will be so sad he won't show up for tomorrow's show and instead watch international rules football? &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 05:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Support''' this seems worthy of posting - per YellowMonkey. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 07:10, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::There's no specific criteria other than a one-paragraph referenced update as far as I remember, but the article is rather short and undetailed for an ITN-worthy obituary IMHO.  I think an obit that is linked at ITN should be an outstanding article.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 09:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Articles in decent shape and he was a leader in the "sport." The surf world is in mourning my dad is in shock about it (and he was one the original 60/70/80s surf bums) [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 13:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::<s>Article in decent shape?  There are 4 references in the whole article.  The update is one sentence with one reference</s>.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' not well known enough.  Sure, he may be one of the best surfers, but he's not one of the best athletes in the world. [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  16:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::''On what grounds do we compare sports? He's been the most successful in his sport in three years. To the best of my knowledge, Nadal has only been the most prolific in 2008 and 2010. '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  00:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' the best of the best in his field of sports.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 16:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Oppose'''. Not famous/notable enough for an ITN death. Surfing is not widely followed as a spectator sport. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 00:17, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Opppose'''. Not a sport of international interest; we didn't post the death of a Pan-American Games champion in swimming and this is far less notable on a global scale. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 00:36, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Surfing gets more global coverage than NFL and MLB. In any case, I've expanded some more '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  00:56, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::YellowMonkey, can you back that comment up?  As far as I'm aware surfing is only a popular spectator sport in Australia, and I imagine some Pacific islands.  It barely registers in the US, though it is of local interest in Hawaii.  ESPN.com had an [http://espn.go.com/action/surfing/news/story?page=andy-irons-obituary article] (not a major headline) on Irons' death but that's the only time I can remember surfing making the main page.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 06:00, 4 November 2010 (UTC)\
::::::Don't be too hard on the guy. We all gotta surpass our "[http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3103080 no one watches American sports]" quota for the month... this early. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 13:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::YM, I get news about the NFL and MLB in the Straits Times. I don't get news about surfing at all. I certainly wouldn't buy that surfing gets more global coverage than NFL or MLB. [[User:Strange Passerby|Strange Passerby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Strange Passerby|contribs]]) 13:11, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' with the update in the article I would like a change of pace from overtaking of the ITN by terrorists. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 01:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''For deaths, it is probably reasonable to consider the state of the article before the death as an indicator of the comparative notability of individuals (at least comparing those whose fame is equally within Anlophonia): on the basis of this, the unfortunate deceased[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andy_Irons&oldid=392924440] is on a par with 2nd division footballers (UK).  Improvement to articles is desirable and worthy: I'm only talking about pre-death as indicator of profile...  [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 07:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. If we had a separate "Recent deaths" section, this would be a good candidate, but we don't so the nomination has to fight for ITN space; in that fight, I don't think it really fits. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 14:04, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

====Kosovo's government is [[2010 political crisis in Kosovo| brought down]]====
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11677809 BBC]. --<span style="font-family:serif;">[[User: Candlewicke|<span style="color:red">can</span>]][[User:Candlewicke/List of signatories|<span style="color:black">dle</span>]][[WP:ITN/C|•]][[User talk:Candlewicke|<span style="color:green">wicke</span>]]</span> 03:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:Hmm, well, I'll wait to see how this gets played out in the media but at first glance it might be worth waiting until the elections take place in December.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Head of Government is being removed from office.  Much of english speaking world has invested signiifcant time in money reubuilding Kosovo after our intervention there 1998 [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 13:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Support''' Historic event, beyond a "small time thing" status.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 16:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Support''' Seriously, how come this is not in the front page?  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Fixman|Fixman]] ([[User talk:Fixman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fixman|contribs]]) 00:14, 4 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::The article in the heading, [[2010 political crisis in Kosovo]], currently mentions nothing about the government going down or anything else since 27 September so I don't see how it could go on the front page right now. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I think it is ready for ITN.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 00:13, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::::The only edit since my former post is by myself [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2010_political_crisis_in_Kosovo&diff=prev&oldid=394704114] and I only fixed some problems but didn't add any recent developments. There are still no news in the article so it doesn't belong in the news. [[#Suggesting an item]] above says: "Update an article linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated." By the way, the article is an [[WP:Orphan|orphan]] with no incoming links and it is the only article in [[:Category:Political controversies in Kosovo]] which is an orphan category. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 00:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', per Anthropologist. This should be posted already. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 01:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::I agree on that!,.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 09:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::It cannot be posted without an updated article. Wikipedia is not a news site and In The News is not a place to briefly present news and then link to an article with no mention of it. If you want it considered for posting then [[2010 political crisis in Kosovo]] (the only article mentioned so far) must be updated, or another updated article suggested. The article should also have some quality to be highlighted on the main page. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:::We eagerly await the article updates provided by you two. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] ([[User talk:Golbez|talk]]) 16:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Isnt that a bit counter-productive when the things that you want updated and added, will be just that but very mutch faster and probabby more accurate if this article is put onto ITN. I still support that this new is put onto ITN.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:38, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::No matter how anyone twists it, its still a major political event.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 15:55, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

====United States elections====
[[United States elections, 2010]]: All 435 seats in the House, 37 of 100 Senate seats, and 38 governorships will be decided. Potential (likely) shift in majority from the Dems to Republicans. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 22:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Obvious support''' US makes up 50%+ of the readership is one of the world's most important countries - also see [[Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#Tuesday.27s_elections|this]]. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 23:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm still waiting to see this "list of most important countries" of yours, Eraserhead. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' for congressional results.  I would not normally support federal midterms of any country, but the United States is quite an exception.  '''Oppose''' gubernatorial elections, however,as they only concern individual states, and not - directly - the political alignment of federal politics, so I'm for keeping gubernatorial results out. [[User:Franklinville|Franklinville]] ([[User talk:Franklinville|talk]]) 23:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Lets announce as much as we can with saying the least. Make them have to click on the Wikilink to get info [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 23:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Senate and Congress elections, but '''strong oppose''' the non-federal elections including state governors and city mayors. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Obvious support''' (for House and Senate results) we would publish similar election results in any large country. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 23:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:I tend to go against obvious US-centric news like this one, but whichever way it comes out, it will be notable and have notable worldwide implications. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 23:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' House and Senate results, '''oppose''' state govenor results, <s>'''support''' Californian marijuana bill.</s> --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 00:10, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:I would '''support''' the California marijuana bill '''only''' if it passes; if the ballot fails, it isn't really notable news then. [[User:Franklinville|Franklinville]] ([[User talk:Franklinville|talk]]) 00:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' both sets of results and the bill, but, as above, only if it passes. [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#169916;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 00:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:: ... To be clear, I '''strongly oppose''' the non-federal elections (mayors and governors) [[User talk:Fox|<font style="color:#660000;">&nbsp;'''''f&nbsp;o&nbsp;x'''''&nbsp;</font>]] 00:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

::'''Comment''' [[Federal preemption]] makes Prop 19 DOA either way as Eric Holder has made clear he will enforce Federal law. Not even worth a court case as 200 years of precedent tells us where state and Fed law conflict it defers to Federal Law [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 00:30, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::In English?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/109.157.175.59|109.157.175.59]] ([[User talk:109.157.175.59|talk]]) 08:49, 3 November 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:'''Support''' congressional but oppose all state / municipal results and oppose marijuana bill.  The congressional is a big deal internationally but the other issues are not big enough on the global stage. [[User:Meshach|meshach]] ([[User talk:Meshach|talk]]) 01:14, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
'''strongest possible oppose''' we already set predence just last week '''NOT''' to post local elections and per [[WP:Consensus]] is not based on mere tallies.([[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 02:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC));
::::Countries using the [[Westminster system]] with a hereditary head-of-state all have local elections. Don't tell me you'd oppose British general elections. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 05:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Are you opposing any mention of this election, the federal election ie Congress? '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::Refering to [[Naheed Nenshi|Calgary's Muslim mayor]] or [[Bahraini parliamentary election, 2010]]? [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 02:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Strong oppose''' per Lihaas' note. People are still debating on whether or not the Tuvalu '''presidential election''' should have been posted, and now this mid-term election is receiving widespread support? It's absolutely, without a single doubt a local affair, and has absolutely no implication for the international audience. This is purely a US-only story. If the majority in the senate moves toward the Republicans, then I'll weakly support it, but other than that, it's an oppose from me. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 02:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::"and has absolutely no implication for the international audience" is not accurate whatsoever. We have posted general elections (non-presidential) for a number of countries, let alone the one with the most international presence and WP readership. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't really see how anyone can seriously claim that the Tuvalu presidential election is more significant than the US mid-terms. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 07:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::::'''Support''' as per HTD below.  Results are still coming in.  This election is not merely 'local', it will determine the national legislature and which party controls it.  It clearly falls in line with our policy of posting elections.  And the [[Tuvalu]] elections were posted (which by the way doesn't have political parties).--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' but updates should be added first. I don't want this to become the US Senate special election in Massachusetts blurb that was added w/o an update. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 03:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' This is a national election, not a local election so Lihaas look-at-me oppose doesn't make sense. It's equivalent to a parliamentary election, let alone in the most important country in the world. We should post control of the Senate and the House, but nothing about gubernatorial outcomes.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 03:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:*Oh and re "no international implications", I would have thought that control over the US' defence and foreign aid budgets are rather important for a lot of people around the world.
:'''Blurb comment''' It appears that the Democrats maintain control of the Senate, while Republicans pick up the House, resulting in a split Congress. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 03:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*This will be posted, but can somebody actually update the article to a decent state? [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 03:56, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
* Any blurb suggestions? [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 07:45, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:Probably something like "In the [[United States elections, 2010|2010 United States midterm elections]], [[Republican Party (United States)|Republicans]] win control of the [[United States House of Representatives|House]] while [[Democratic Party (United States)|Democrats]] maintain a majority in the [[United States Senate|Senate]]." [[User:Makeemlighter|Makeemlighter]] ([[User talk:Makeemlighter|talk]]) 08:56, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::I would drop the word 'midterm' from the blurb.  They are not midterm for the candidates who are taking part in the election.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 10:12, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::: We can replace "midterm" with "congressional". Should the blurb link to [[United States Senate elections, 2010]] and [[United States House of Representatives elections, 2010]] instead? [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 10:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*Easily '''support'''. No. 1 topic in the media all around the world. Support for Makeemlighter's suggestion. —[[User:Bender235|bender235]] ([[User talk:Bender235|talk]]) 09:56, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - are you shitting me? Need I point out that this is all over the front page of [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ BBC News], [http://www.haaretz.com/ Haaretz], [http://www.eltiempo.com/ El Tiempo (Colombia)]... do I really need to continue? I'd put it up myself, if I knew half of how this board worked... [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre|talk]]) 10:39, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
** In either case, it's not going up until the article is updated... [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 10:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Ugh, I'd do it myself, but honestly I have to be awake in less than 6 hours, and I haven't slept yet. Sorry guys. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre|talk]]) 10:51, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - obviously important. Whether some people here like it or not, national elections in the United States are of international significance - we're not talking the presidential election in Tuvalu here. I'd say only the most basic summary is needed though, something like 'Republicans make gains in Congress, win House, Democrats hold Senate'. [[User:Robofish|Robofish]] ([[User talk:Robofish|talk]]) 10:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''', but only the ''national elections'', as we do (and should continue to do) for every other country, including Tuvalu—which, by the way, ''<u>doesn't have presidential elections</u>''; it has a [[Queen of Tuvalu|Queen]]... Parliamentary elections is what we posted (rightly so), and this is its equivelant in the United States. So this is not local. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Here's the blurb that was agreed upon at [[WP:ITN]] earlier:
[[File:John Boehner official portrait.jpg|80px|right]]
*"In the [[United States]], the [[Democratic Party (United States)|Democratic Party]] '''[[United States Senate elections, 2010|retains a majority]]''' in the [[United States Senate|Senate]], while the [[Republican Party (United States)|Republican Party]] '''[[United States House of Representatives elections, 2010|wins a majority]]''' of seats in the [[United States House of Representatives|House of Representatives]]. ''(Incoming [[Speaker of the United States House of Representatives|House Speaker]] [[John Boehner]] pictured)''
:There's an issue on how to call Boehner nowadays, there's no such thing as "Speaker-elect" or even "incoming Speaker." Giving the specfics on how Boehner currently stands will lengthen the blurb. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 13:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Ready to post the above wording. Any objections? --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 14:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Could you add the word 'probable' instead of incoming? Or maybe just drop the picture entirely or replace with congressional seal instead? [[User:Andymease|Andymease]] ([[User talk:Andymease|talk]]) 15:32, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Belated '''support'''. Major news internationally, as shown by several people above. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 15:37, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose'''. We have not posted some stories about the U.S. that were far more important. The outcome of this election is expected and not really news. -[[User:SusanLesch|SusanLesch]] ([[User talk:SusanLesch|talk]]) 18:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Do you need to be so [[WP:POINT]]y? -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 18:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
====California Marijuana vote====
Creating a separate section, as many editors are expressing an interest in it. The article is at [[California Proposition 19 (2010)]]. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 00:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*Regardless if the courts will overturn this, if the proposition passes, it will be high news everywhere. '''Support''' if it passes. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 00:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak oppose''', mostly because it will undoubtedly be overturned. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 00:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', California is a big place but not enough global impact.  When it comes to the federal level I would support. [[User:Meshach|meshach]] ([[User talk:Meshach|talk]]) 01:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
<s>:'''Support''' the legalization of marijuana in the States is major news, regardless of if it is in Wyoming or California. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 01:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
::The bill was struck down, so '''oppose''' because there is nothing important to comment on. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">Plasma</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FFFFFF">Twa</font>]][[User talk:Plasma Twa 2|<font color="#FF0000">2</font>]] 07:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::<small>copy and pasted from above</small> '''Oppose''' [[Federal preemption]] makes Prop 19 DOA either way as Eric Holder has made clear he will enforce Federal law. Not even worth a court case as 200 years of precedent tells us where state and Fed law conflict it defers to Federal Law [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 02:06, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently 80-90% of marijuana prosecutions against Californians occur under state law.  It seems unlikely that the Feds could commit the resources needed to make up the difference if CA really did stop prosecuting marijuana crimes.  The FBI / DEA / etc. simply don't have the manpower to find offenders as easily as local police.  So, even if the federal laws are still enforced, it would seem likely that the situation in CA would still be different than it is now.  Of course, early results suggests the entire point is moot, as the measure seems headed towards defeat.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 04:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' if it passes, dispite the fact that it won't have much practical effect, because the debate is an international one and California is a fairly large group of electors. '''However''', the article looks to be in a fairly dire state for the Main Page, so... [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 02:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' if passed, '''oppose''' if rejected. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 03:29, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' legalising/banning alcohol/marijuana/prostitution happens in various places and doesn;t really change much, apart from a local tax. I wonder whether we would put up some country introducing a GST/VAT or privatising something big? '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  03:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
*It looks like it won't pass: [http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/individual/#CAI01 cnn]. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 03:48, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose either way'''. It's more of a gimmicking look-at-me campaign. Even if passed, it wouldn't make a difference per Anthroplogist. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 03:51, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::Apparently, the President of Mexico weighed in. &ndash;'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">HTD</font>]]''' ([[Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 31#World Cup updates|<font color="#FFA500">ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.</font>]]) 03:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Not surprising. He thinks legalization would solve the problem in Mexico. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 04:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''', given the low likelihood of it passing at this point. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 07:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' either way. It's one constituent out of fifty (it ''might'' be a big deal if it were federal). Also... it's marijuana (not the death penalty) we're talking about here. Only news to potheads. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User talk:Night w|<font color="black">Night</font><font color="gray">w</font>]]</span>''' 12:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or people who care about personal freedom, those filthy stoner hippies. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] ([[User talk:Golbez|talk]]) 16:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Oppose''' as it didn't pass. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 18:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

====Hurricane Tomas====
At least 14 people have been killed in St. Lucia and three more in Curaçao by this late-season hurricane. Damage from the storm is nearing the US$200 million mark and will probably continue to rise. According to the Prime Minister of St. Lucia, it's "the worst...in living memory." Things are continuing to go downhill from here, Jamaica and Haiti are next in line for this storm.
:"'''[[Hurricane Tomas (2010)|Hurricane Tomas]]''' kills at least 17 people after battering the [[Windward Islands]]; [[Haiti]], still reeling from a [[2010 Haiti earthquake|devastating earthquake in January]], is currently in the forecast path of the storm.

[[User:Cyclonebiskit|Cyclonebiskit]] ([[User talk:Cyclonebiskit|talk]]) 19:50, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Oppose''' for now. So far the damage seems fairly minor in hurricane terms. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 19:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::Maybe compared to hurricanes in other countries, but damage from storms are relative to where they strike. For example, say a Category 3 strikes the United States, damage from the storm will likely run into the tens of billions; however, put the same storm over a small island such as Grenada ([[Hurricane Ivan]] is a great example of this) and the damage is substantially lower, but catastrophic for the small island. In Tomas's case, it is being regarded as one of the worst to hit the island of [[St. Lucia]] as well as [[Curaçao]]. In a nearby country, [[Saint Vincent and the Grenadines]], it has devastated the country's main export, bananas, and will likely result in substantial economic losses. [[User:Cyclonebiskit|Cyclonebiskit]] ([[User talk:Cyclonebiskit|talk]]) 20:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::This is from a recently published news article on the storm and its effects in St. Lucia: "He [Parliamentary representative Harold Dalson] described the scene as to an atomic bomb attack." [[User:Cyclonebiskit|Cyclonebiskit]] ([[User talk:Cyclonebiskit|talk]]) 20:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, but we don't really post presidential elections in Curacao, but we do for US. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:03, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Sorry to be blunt, but what does a presidential election have to do with loss of life and widespread damage? [[User:Cyclonebiskit|Cyclonebiskit]] ([[User talk:Cyclonebiskit|talk]]) 21:36, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::You compared a storm hitting US with the same storm hitting Curacao and argued that the relative damage is higher, even though the absolute damage is the same. And I compared elections in the US vs those in Curacao, and the absolute impact to the country in those cases is the same. One could argue if relative is what we should be base ITN issues, but I think that the absolute part is more relevant; and if the latter is true then my comparison should be used as a counter-argumet. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 00:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', a disaster for the area but not enough global impact. [[User:Meshach|meshach]] ([[User talk:Meshach|talk]]) 01:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:While currently the damage is extensive in the Caribbean, it is [http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at1+shtml/204614.shtml?5-daynl?large#contents headed for Haiti], so it will undoubtedly rise. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 01:54, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per Nergaal and Titoxd. Not significant enough yet for ITN, yet might well be in a week or so. [[User:StrPby|Str]][[User:Strange Passerby|Pby]] ([[User talk:Strange Passerby|talk]]) 00:29, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

====Anglo-French treaties====
The UK and France have signed treaties to cooperate on nuclear testing and setting up a new joint military expeditionary force. The [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11670247 Beeb] obviously seem to think this is a big deal. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</span>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]]  14:07, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' clearly a big story. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 14:10, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::No article yet nor any mention at [[France – United Kingdom relations]].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 15:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not sure about this one. In principle it should be significant, but there's a lot of detail which hasn't been worked out. The nuclear deal is extremely minor and only goes as far as helping each other with the use of some research facilities. The military stuff is itself bigger, but only amounts to a commitment in principle to form a joint expeditionary force and carrier sharing - these things aren't actually set up by the current agreements. Notice how the media sources ([http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/nov/02/britain-france-landmark-50-year-defence-deal Guardian here]) are using phrasing such as 'envisages', 'will allow' and 'includes plans'. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 20:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' - Politicians only do these treaties to shake hands in the media and look nice on photos. No substance there. They have cooperated in the past, and they will do so in the future, as members of NATO and EU, among other liens. So what's the big deal? [[User:Crnorizec|Crnorizec]] ([[User talk:Crnorizec|talk]]) 01:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong Support''' sharing of Aircraft Carriers is unprecedented it signifies the two really tying themselves together. Signifcant implications for Global Security and Forgein Policies [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 13:20, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

==="habitable oasis" found in Martian volcano===
Haven't found yet an English source, but Spanish-language ones: [http://www.larazon.com.ar/interesa/Restos-vida-pasada-volcan-Marte_0_182100055.html] [http://www.europapress.es/sociedad/ciencia/noticia-identifican-marte-indicios-posible-existencia-vida-20101031202640.html] say there were also found remains of life in that planet. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 02:44, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong Oppose''', only rumors. - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 15:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:<s>'''Oppose''' I can't read it but such news would be front page every where if it was confirmed. I'll defer to Simions lead i am assuming he can read it [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 15:20, 2 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
::They were not rumours. I'll translate a part of the EuropaPress article for you: Hydrated silicon deposits in the Syrtis Major volcanic complex on Mars indicate an environment that could have hosted some life form relatively recently, according to a research b the University of Brown in Providence, United States, published in the digital version of the 'Nature Geoscience' magazine.
::I ''doubt'' those are rumours. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 16:14, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Chasing down the Article... still a little doubtful [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 16:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::[http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2010/10/mars] Press release. And [http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20101031/sc_space/habitablehotspotsonmarsvolcanoventsmaybesigns] Yahoo News article --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 16:28, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::'''Weak oppose'''Thanx naming the Journal helped me track it down. Its Speculative and suggestible of possible life presence is possible. I am unsure how of its significance into the general scheme of things. Thus I change to weak oppose and open to being supportive if some one can tell me its significance [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 16:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose'''. Water used to exist on Mars. Mars has volcanism. Neither of these are new discoveries, finding them in the same place is hardly surprising. This is just an incremental bit of research which has been hugely overblown by the press release and media coverage, and the heading chosen for this section is ridiculous. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 20:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Weak support'''. The phrasing is overblown, but this ''seems'' to be the best evidence so far for "Martian life". [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:06, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''', just speculation. [[User:Meshach|meshach]] ([[User talk:Meshach|talk]]) 01:21, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

===[[2010 World Series]]===
The [[San Francisco Giants]] may wrap up the franchise's sixth championship against the [[Texas Rangers (baseball)|Texas Rangers]]. It'll be the franchises first since 1954, and their first since moving from New York in 1958. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:And they do win, 3-1 in 5 games. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::If you mean games, 4-1...score of game 5 was 3-1. But regardless, '''obvious support''' [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 02:32, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::3-1 in Game 5, 4-1 in five games. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 02:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*In [[baseball]], the [[San Francisco Giants]] win the '''[[2010 World Series]]''' by defeating the [[Texas Rangers]].--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:06, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
**I would make it "In baseball, the [[San Francisco Giants]] win the '''[[2010 World Series]]''' by defeating the [[Texas Rangers]] four games to one." or something similar indicating the 4-1 thing. As usual, though, I think my phrasing of it is a bit suspect and could easily be refined into something a bit more main page worthy. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 03:35, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::scores are normally left out.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 03:48, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::{{ec}} We have a general rule of not posting scores on ITN (to make sure that readers have some reason to click on the link!). Otherwise, '''support'''. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 03:50, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AIn_the_news&action=historysubmit&diff=394313961&oldid=394256463 It seems] that [[User:Bongwarrior|Bongwarrior]] has decided to take it upon himself to adjudge consensus and updating... '''Posted'''. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 03:53, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::ITNR listings don't need consensus, and the update was fine.  [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  03:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, could we post [[:File:6TH Edgar Rentería.jpg]] with the caption (''[[World Series MVP]] [[Edgar Renteria]] pictured'').  Sure, MVP is obscure to some, but people interested in baseball know what it means, and those who don't know can click the link.  [[User:DC|<font color="#BB133E" face="Tahoma">DC</font>]] [[User talk:DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">T</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/DC|<font color="#002664" face="Tahoma">C</font>]]  04:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::ITNR items have consensus by default--ITNR is decided by consensus.  I '''support''' adding the photo.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 04:10, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I also '''support the photo'''. [[w:User:Ks0stm|<b style="color:#009900;">Ks0stm</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]])</sup> 04:12, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
==November 1==
{{cot|[[Portal:Current events/2010 November 1]]}}
{{Portal:Current events/2010 November 1}}
{{cob}}
====Baghdad hostages====
- 52 killed, dozens injured in Baghdad. [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/37-hostages-killed-in-Baghdad-church-drama-Official/articleshow/6849606.cms] - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 12:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:[[2010 Baghdad Siege]] - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 14:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Is [[October 2010 Baghdad church attack]] the same subject? '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 15:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:::looks like it. the latter article seems better. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 15:12, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Redirected and <s>oppose</s>. Suicide bombings in Iraq, Pakistan, Israel, etc. aren't notable, however tragic. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 15:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::i disagree with ''however tragic''. this seems like its tragic enough. quite a few things going on here... hostages taken in church, US and iraqi miltary involved, Christians targeted, 52 deaths, vatican making statement. i think this is fairly notable -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 15:46, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
*<s>'''Oppose''' 52 deaths in a bomb blask in Irak is not ITN worthy. 100+ maybe, but not 52. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 18:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)</s>
**I cannot believe these comments. 52 deaths, regardless of the location, is extremely notable. The hostage taking was in the nation's capital and seems to have been fuelled by religious hate. On this basis, '''Major support'''. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 22:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
'''Weak support'''. It's a high-profile attack and the biggest attack against a church in Iraq. Of course, attack against civilians in Iraq is common, but not as common as it was before. [[User:Offliner|Offliner]] ([[User talk:Offliner|talk]]) 23:43, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

'''Support'''  significant death toll. article in decent shape.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 23:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' 12 injured in Turkey is more worthy of posting than 50+ dead in Iraq? Not on the wikipedia that I know.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 00:10, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' controversial action; attempts to defeat sieges always are, especially with the cirucmstances '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<span style="color:GoldenRod;">YellowMonkey</span>]]'''  (''[[User_talk:YellowMonkey#Photo_poll|<span style="color:#FA8605;">new photo poll</span>]]'')  00:14, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' a new type of attack (AFAIK) in Iraq, and considerable death toll. [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:25, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' as long as the blurb mentions the attack was in a Catholic Church, and would favor it simply replacing the Turkey attack because I don't think there is consensus for that, thought my support isn't conditional on that caveat. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 01:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Very very veeeeeeeeeery weak support''' because I just don't like to see tragedies anywhere. I turn on the TV - Tragedies. Google News - Tragedies. Not Wikipedia, please. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 01:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' This has gotten quite a bit of international attention. [[User:Truthsort|Truthsort]] ([[User talk:Truthsort|talk]]) 02:15, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. This is receiving a lot of international attention, more than usual. Possible wording: Islamic militants '''[[October 2010 Baghdad church attack|attack]]''' a [[Catholic Church|Catholic]] [[Church (building)|church]] in [[Baghdad]], [[Iraq]], killing 58 people and injuring dozens of others. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 02:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''', as per above.  I would suggest we put this in place of the Istanbul bombing.  I support both items personally, but I believe the Istanbul bombing did not have consensus and this is clearly more notable.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 04:36, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::There is still dispute as to which church it is. Duly mentioned on the talk page, and until that is sorted out it would be completely off to mention one when it can be wrong on the main page.([[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 07:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC));
:::'''Support''' once which church it is is sorted out. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Its coming along, but someone needs to answer the church query on the talk page.[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 07:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::While that should be resolved (I've made a contribution to the evidence), I don't see why it need stall ITN listing: whether Chaldean or Sryian, it is one of the Eastern Catholic rites in union with Rome, so ''Catholic church'' is an adequate description, even if not very precise. [[User:Kevin McE|Kevin McE]] ([[User talk:Kevin McE|talk]]) 16:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::All systems are a-go ;)
::::::Suggesting linking Catholic Church to [[Eastern Rite Catholic]] instead of ''Roman Catholic''[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 07:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::If we're sure it's Eastern Rite then that's ok but as Eastern Rite 'is' part of the Catholic Church it may be safer to simply say 'Catholic'.--[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 20:16, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Eastern Rite ''Catholic'' takes care of that no?[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 07:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:This story is almost starting to get old. is there any reason it has not been posted yet? the World Series went up within the hour with very few updates. i would imagine even an iraq item with fairly heavy consensus and a pretty good article should go up in 2 days time. -- [[User:Ashishg55|Ashish]][[User talk:Ashishg55|-g55]] 20:11, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::::<u>'''Update'''</u>. '''[[2 November 2010 Baghdad bombings|Another attack]]''' today. 63 killed, 300 injured. Should combine two articles? - [[User:Eugen Simion 14|Eugen Simion 14]] ([[User talk:Eugen Simion 14|talk]]) 21:01, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Support''' two successive attacks are notable. I would go for a merged article, unless they are proven to have different perpetrators. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 21:08, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*Posted the first article only.  The second one needs massive expansion before going up. '''[[User:Spencer|<span style="color:#082567">Spencer</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">T♦</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Spencer|<span style="color:#FFBF00">C</span>]]</sup> 23:45, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:I've put a brief update on the the first one. Feel free to update that and merge this one.[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 07:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

====2010 cargo plane bomb plot====
I'd like to re-nominate the [[2010 cargo plane bomb plot]] because it has remained a top news item and I am concerned that people are not seeing it [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#2010_cargo_plane_bomb_plot_2 below]. The tagline for it could be something like "Authorities in [[Dubai]] and the [[United Kingdom]] are investigating the '''[[2010 cargo plane bomb plot]]''', an attempted bombing of commercial airliners and cargo aircraft en route from [[Yemen]] to the [[United States]]." The article has developed a lot over the last three days, and we are up to 31 sources. – [[User:Novem_Linguae|<i>Novem Lingvae</i>]] <small>([[User_talk:Novem_Linguae|talk]])</small> 21:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Weak support'''. Only because the [[Northwest Airlines Flight 253|Christmas Day bombing attempt]] was posted, and the article is of better quality than most articles on ITN. '''<sub><font color="#4B0000">Eric</font></sub><small><font color="#550000">Leb</font></small><sup><font color="#660000">01</font></sup> <small>([[User:Ericleb01|Page]] &#124; [[User talk:Ericleb01|Talk]])</small>''' 22:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Northwest 253 was actually in the air when the attempt ocurred. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 01:50, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Neutral''' last X-mas was a slow news day and so is today, That being said This is having international Ramifications in Europe as far as Cargo from Yemen being restricted by a number of countries in the EU. If The template is in the red its better than nothing.... [[User:ResidentAnthropologist|The Resident Anthropologist]] ([[User talk:ResidentAnthropologist|talk]]) 23:22, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Whilst it's hardly the biggest story, the article is pretty good and we did post the unsuccessful bombing attempt last year. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 23:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. A notable story which will probably have big implications for air travel and for the war against terrorism. [[User:Offliner|Offliner]] ([[User talk:Offliner|talk]]) 23:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. per offliner--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 00:07, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' as below. "We have more than enough terrorism on ITN as it is, just with posting the successful attacks, without posting failed events that might not even have been attacks in the first place. In addition, it's far from clear what sort of "added value" Wikipedia can provide to this story: reposting general speculation about motives etc, is still just speculation." And yes, I have reread the article since I first posted those comments, and I don't think it's of a particularly high quality with regards to repeating simple speculation (nor in its general tone). [[User:Physchim62|Physchim62]] [[User talk:Physchim62|(talk)]] 01:29, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:: but this is the first time AQ has tried this method to attack USA.  that is what makes this (failed) plot notable and ITN worthy IMO.  "too much terrorism" is unfortunately a fact of life nowadays and Wp just reflects the state of the real world.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 01:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per Physchim and my comments below. Too much terrorism, we don't include successful attempts killing 50+, I don't think this crosses a threshold for thwarted attacks. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red">11</font></b>]]</sup>''' 01:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' per Physchim. [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] ([[User talk:Diego Grez|talk]]) 01:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support'''.  This has remained a top headline for several days.  --[[User:Johnsemlak|Johnsemlak]] ([[User talk:Johnsemlak|talk]]) 02:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per Johnsemlak, for better or for worse this is a big deal. -- [[User:Eraserhead1|Eraserhead1]] &lt;[[User_talk:Eraserhead1|talk]]&gt; 08:22, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
*'''Posted''' This is obviously a major story. It's more "In the News" than any other item currently on ITN. Let's not be ridiculous. -- '''[[User:Tariqabjotu|<span style="color:black;">tariq</span><span style="color:gray;">abjotu</span>]]''' 16:03, 2 November 2010 (UTC)