View source for User talk:Drmies/Archive 146

{{talkarchivenav}}

== Edward Hayter ==

hello, can I ask why the TV guide and rotten tomatoes sources were removed? They're said to be reliable sources. [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*Who says that? Rotten Tomatoes' biographies of actors, why would that be reliable? Ask yourself who wrote that content. Same with the TV Guide stuff: it actually says "A Fandom Company", so that's probably where that comes from. I think the only acceptable sources are in the reviews, including the two that I just edited. If you cleaned up the writing, threw out the poor and unacceptable references, and focused on the good ones, this would be accepted in no time. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
**https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#perennial_sources you can see theyre reliable here [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:33, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
***Please don't just see if the name is there: read the whole thing: "There is consensus that Rotten Tomatoes should not be used for biographical information, as it is user-generated content along with a lack of oversight." And for TV Guide: "TV Guide is considered generally reliable for television-related topics. Some editors consider TV Guide a primary source for air dates." What you linked to was not that. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:45, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
****I added tvgude for the names of the work he has done not for the dates [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:49, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
****Can you explain what you mean that i didnt linked that for tv guide? [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:50, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*****OK--please stick with asterisks. There's a picture of "Will" on his "bio" (what an awful site that is), but he's not even mentioned on the page dedicated [https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/will/cast/1000159479/to that show]. So it actually seems like someone added that to "his" page (twice?). If sites are so unclear and messy, don't use them. What I ''did'' see, while browsing around, was not a single reliable mention for his role in [[Will (TV series)]], and our article doesn't list him as "recurring". So if there is no sourcing in reliable secondary sources (not primary ones or user-submitted sites), then maybe it just shouldn't be mentioned at all. We're not publishing resumes here: we're writing encyclopedic content that's supposed to be verified by reliable sources. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*****:which of these sources can i use for his role in Will? https://www.broadwayworld.com/uk-regional/article/Bristol-Old-Vic-And-Lyceum-Edinburgh-Announce-Casts-For-Double-Co-Productions-TWELFTH-NIGHT-and-TOUCHING-THE-VOID-20180724 [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 03:14, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*****::https://bristololdvic.org.uk/profile/edward-hayter
*****:: https://en.kinorium.com/name/3573719/
*****:: https://www.cine.com/actores/edward-hayter
*****:: https://www.filmweb.pl/person/Edward+Hayter-2316457/filmography
*****:: https://www.lavanguardia.com/peliculas-series/series/will-71367/actores [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 03:15, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*****:::https://www.chaptermgmt.co.uk/205-edward-hayter/ [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 03:15, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
{{od}}Again, please stick with asterisks; I can't correct what you did there since it's a messed up list. No, NOT A SINGLE ONE of those are reliable secondary sources. I think you really need to start learning what "secondary" means. [https://www.broadwayworld.com/uk-regional/article/Bristol-Old-Vic-And-Lyceum-Edinburgh-Announce-Casts-For-Double-Co-Productions-TWELFTH-NIGHT-and-TOUCHING-THE-VOID-20180724 The Broadwayworld article] is, I suppose, acceptable for the basic fact of the TV show, but it shouldn't be cited for anything else: no publication should be writing things like "Josh Williams has been taking the UK theatre by storm". Is that enough? Put the little role in there, as a bare fact, and don't try to play it up. And PLEASE read [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] before you write up another draft. Thank you. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
**Why would it be accepted if he still doesnt have significant coverage in articles? [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:35, 19 September 2023 (UTC) But thank you for helping writting the words in a better way! [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:38, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
***Sure, you're welcome. My point is that there are at least a few reliable sources in there, and there might be more reviews etc. out on the internet, but the draft, as it is written, is just in a very poor state--it doesn't ''suggest'' that it is on a notable topic, and the reliable sources that I looked at weren't represented well. Look for the sources, and write it better. How do you write it better? Look at good examples, for instance in the list at [[WP:GA]]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:45, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
****Can i use a primary source (interview) since i cant use rotten tomatoes for the bio then? [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 02:57, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*****No. See above. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:59, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
*****:I went to look up some articles such as Jamie Campbell Bower, Taylor Lautner, Dakota Fanning... and I see,none of them had tv guide or rotten tomatoes cited except for one and everything else is on reviews websites. But I kept the infos for Hayter because once he gets on better articles I could have changed the bad sources to the reliable ones. I don't plan on submitting the draft as I already talked to the reviewers who reviewed it [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 11:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

:Ive got Victoria Emslie approved as well as couple more in other languages, i know what reliable sources are. Just some i never saw. But ill use the broadway for Will as its acceptable you said. Ive learned a lot here for the past year, i tried to use as much as BBC, the guardian, the times, the Independent, Hollywood Reporter, collider... as much as there is anything written there but magazines and news those are the triky sources as its hard to know if reliable or not [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 03:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
:What are asterisks? [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 03:31, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
::I wrote to rotten tomatoes about who writes the bio and this is what they answered: 
::we typically receive an email from the actor or publicist  -- and they provide the Bio information to us. we then forward that information to our Bio Editor for review  -- and if it meets standards we will add it -- [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 13:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
:::So it's the opposite of independent, secondary, reliable. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:12, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
::::So its a primary source then? [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 14:15, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::At best, yes. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:17, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::Hello again, someone removed all reliable sources on the draft as well of almost everything and the draft has been resubmitted but i dont believe it will be approved. Can you unsummit it as well as put everything back please, ill remove the content that doesnt have the reliable sources [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 12:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::[[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]], you are likely talking about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Edward_Hayter&diff=prev&oldid=1176853293 this edit]. You should thank [[User:Spinster300]] for all their hard work: they turned your draft, which has been declined time after time and would have been declined again, into something that stood a good chance of being accepted. Then you came back and undid their work, and then restored some of it, etc. Whatever is good about that draft is their work, and what you should probably do is revert to their edit, and send them flowers. One thing though, Spinster: Rotten Tomatoes and TV Guide are ''not'' acceptable BLP sources: it's user-submitted and/or un-edited stuff. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:26, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Its fine i asked in the talk page of Carbril with the user. They still havent answered for the career section if i should let it be or if i should remove it and then add it back once its been approved. With their talk i understand it more. And for tv guide and rotten tomatoes it has been discussed in the cabril talk page and its fine [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 16:30, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::That(talking in the user talk page)  is why i recovered what has been changed by the user [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 16:31, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::I wish you took greater care in writing up these messages, and in getting things right--not just spelling, grammar, and the very meaning of words, but also factual stuff ''about'' Wikipedia and the guidelines. No, Rotten Tomatoes are TV Guide are ''not'' fine, and Rotten Tomatoes is ''not'' a primary source: it's user-submitted, as was determined previous. That's not even primary, and the discussion on {{U|Cabrils}}'s talk page does ''not'' say they are OK to use, but frankly, I am not surprised to see that you seem to have completely forgotten what we discussed here on this very page. Now, if you don't mind, I think I've said the same thing a half a dozen times now, and you keep talking to me as if you didn't hear a thing. Good luck with it: I've told you what I think you need to do. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:40, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::Maybe because everyone says everything differently and its gets confusing. Im tired that no one can agrees on the sources, some consider tv guide and rotten tomatoes as primary sources, other dont, others dont consider reliable others consider them reliable. Can it be a rule where everyone just agrees with the sources. It would make everyone less confusing. And i shouldnt have to say that im autistic and have difficulties with understanding text comprehension. Im trying and do my best and thats exactly why im unemployed cause no one accept autistics as what we are. Its hard enough to actually live in a society that dont understand our perceptions and i cant understand neurotypicals perceptions either. And i turn to my idols, movies and writing articles cause thats the only thing that keeps me happy. [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 17:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::"Can it be a rule where everyone just agrees with the sources"? I don't understand what that means, and we actually all usually agree on what sources can and cannot be used. It is not true that "no one can agrees on the sources". You pointed at [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources]]: that's agreement. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:28, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thank you [[User:Drmies|Drmies]], your patience exceeds most known metrics. [[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]] ([[User talk:Cabrils|talk]]) 22:54, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Dear [[User:Drmies|Drmies]], thank you for letting me know that; I have relied on TV Guide and Rotten Tomatoes in real life, and they seemed to get most of it right, and so I did not second guess using them. I have seen them used elsewhere to verify small factoids here and there, but of course, we cannot rely on [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]]. I mainly used those two sources to critically verify the subject's alma maters and filmography. In the initial draft, there was no source given for the subject's education and the Rotten Tomatoes page in particular was the only one that verified those claims. If there are no other available reliable sources that state that, those claims will need to be removed of course. Kind regards, [[User:Spinster300|Spinster300]] ([[User talk:Spinster300|talk]]) 16:41, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
:::::::::Dear [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]], with your permission, I would like to restore the draft to my version and make the required improvements as discussed here. Only then, will the draft possibly get accepted under [[WP:ANYBIO]]. Once there are more reliable sources over time as his career grows, the article can be considerably expanded. Awaiting your thoughts, thank you. Kind regards, [[User:Spinster300|Spinster300]] ([[User talk:Spinster300|talk]]) 17:14, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
::::::::::Of course do it [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 17:15, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Dear [[User:Drmies|Drmies]], the draft has been restored and the discussed changes  have been implemented. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. Kind regards, [[User:Spinster300|Spinster300]] ([[User talk:Spinster300|talk]]) 18:11, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
::::::::::Looks good to me, {{U|Spinster300}}, and thanks for your work and your patience. As [[User:Cabrils]] said, it may be too early, but at least it's a clean-looking draft now. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thank you very much, dear [[User:Drmies|Drmies]]. I agree that it may be too soon, but at least the draft satisfied [[WP:Anybio]] for now. I shall now wait for [[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]]'s review. Please let me a note on my talk page if there any other biographical AfC drafts you would like me to take a look at. Always happy to help! Kind regards, [[User:Spinster300|Spinster300]] ([[User talk:Spinster300|talk]]) 20:56, 24 September 2023 (UTC).
::::::::::::Happy to report [[Edward Hayter|Ed Hayter]] page was accepted by [[User:Tagishsimon|<bdi>Tagishsimon</bdi>]] on 24 September. Thanks again [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] for your attention. [[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]] ([[User talk:Cabrils|talk]]) 22:41, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I saw that yesterday, thank you for the help of everyone involved. I got inspired of what was written to create this draft: [[Draft:Mattias Inwood]]. I'll not add too much as im not sure of his notability but contains some of the same references that Hayter appeared. With reliable sources from deadlines and Metacritic [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 23:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I do believe now that im sure Mattias could be notable after doing much reasearch. I dont think it can have a big article like jamie campbell bower has tho [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 00:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Theres an issue with [[Will (TV series)]] and [[Edward Hayter]] ,his name was deleted from the cast even if the article exist. And the user is starting deleting the article [[User:Veganpurplefox|Veganpurplefox]] ([[User talk:Veganpurplefox|talk]]) 22:38, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

== [[A Tale of Two Cities|It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done...]] ==

Kudos for [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Yaroslav_Hunka|this close]]. Now I know why you get the big bucks. Thank you. [[User:Glane23|Geoff]] &#124; <sup> [[User talk:Glane23#top|Who, me?]]</sup> 22:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:Glane23|Geoff]], you're welcome--but this one was easy, really. I got a few things going on right now that actually require judgment, so you know what I'm doing: emailing fellow Wikipedians! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

== IP block exemption request ==

Hi Drmies... I sent in a renewal request for an existing IP block exemption request 6 days ago... I was wondering if you might be willing to take a look at it as the lack of the exemption is curtailing my ability to edit since I'm frequently on a VPN.

If you're busy or this isn't an appropriate request, my apologies in advance and feel free to ignore.

My subject line to checkuser-en-wp@wikipedia.org was "request renewal of IP block exemption for en.wikipedia.org" from my username @ gmail.

Thank you for your consideration and all your hard work for the project! —[[User:Joeyconnick|Joeyconnick]] ([[User talk:Joeyconnick|talk]]) 02:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
*I looked but can't find such a message. Give me a few. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:39, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
*OK--I think I'm going to ping {{U|Risker}}, who's assisted you before: Risker, would you mind having a look? Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
**No worries, Drmies. {{u|Joeyconnick}}, your  IPBE has been extended. Oh, and I found the VRT ticket and will close it as well.  [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 14:57, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
***Thanks {{U|Risker}}! I'm wondering why I didn't find it in the CU-emails, but maybe that's me. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:11, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
***:Thank you both... really appreciate it! —[[User:Joeyconnick|Joeyconnick]] ([[User talk:Joeyconnick|talk]]) 18:58, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

== Clarification on possible block requested ==

Greetings. [[User:Wikipractitioner|Wikipractitioner]] recently posted [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nail Olpak|here]] a serious accusation about a "conspiracy" working against both their work in Wikipedia as well as some undefined category of "works". My [[User talk:Wikipractitioner#Your allegations of a conspiracy|request]] that they withdraw this accusation was ignored. Checking out their page, I  see  what looks like a penalty imposed on Wikipractitioner. Has [[User:Wikipractitioner|Wikipractitioner]] been blocked or did I misunderstand everything? -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 12:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
*Their conspiracy theory is ludicrous, and so is their response to you: both are so poorly written and confuse so many things, it's almost Trumpian. Yes, they were blocked, the block was lifted, and then they were blocked again; read my comment under the last block notice on their talk page. Thank you, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:45, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

== Administrators' newsletter – September 2023 ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter|News and updates for administrators]] from the past month (September 2023).

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[[File:Wikipedia Administrator.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Administrator changes'''
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|[[Special:PermanentLink/1173208815#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#September 2023|Alex Bakharev]]
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|[[Special:PermanentLink/1173208815#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#September 2023|Cyphoidbomb]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1173208815#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#September 2023|Davodd]]
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|[[Special:PermanentLink/1175291288#Removal of admin permissions (JamesR)|JamesR]]
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|[[Special:PermanentLink/1173275489#Desysop (Nosebagbear)|Nosebagbear]] ([[Wikipedia:Deceased_Wikipedians/2023#Nosebagbear|deceased]])
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:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{hlist|class=inline
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[[File:Green check.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Guideline and policy news'''
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* [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/WikiProject Tropical Cyclones#MarioProtIV topic ban|Remedy 9 ("MarioProtIV topic ban")]] of the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/WikiProject Tropical Cyclones|WikiProject Tropical Cyclones case]] has [[Special:PermanentLink/1174436142#Arbitration motion regarding WikiProject Tropical Cyclones|been rescinded]].

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* The [[WP:CUOS2023|2023 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process]] has concluded with the appointment of one new CheckUser.
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==Draft==
Hi, I should explain... You're quite right, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:TNM101/sandbox&oldid=prev&diff=1178591779 this] is indeed a draft. But it's a dupe of [[Draft:JSS International School]], and [[Wikipedia:Teahouse#Drafts|here]] the creator asked for the draft to be deleted. So I figured they also didn't want their sandbox draft. My bad; jumped the gun. -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 17:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]], I actually saw that conversation and figured you were trying to help. That was not the right template to use but I haven't spent more time thinking about what to do with it. Thanks for the note, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:24, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
*:No worries, and as I said my bad anyway. Cheers, -- [[User:DoubleGrazing|DoubleGrazing]] ([[User talk:DoubleGrazing|talk]]) 17:43, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

== [[Academic dishonesty]]? Assistance needed ==

Hello, Drmies. I believe that I have discovered an instance of academic dishonesty by a student of a class supervised by WikiEd. The article is [[Wi-jún-jon]], the student editor is [[User:Arabdhabiswas]], and the Native American History class was held in Spring semester 2023 at [[UC Irvine]]. I learned about this due to a Teahouse discussion. See [[WP:Teahouse#Conflicting death dates]]. In brief, the subject was a Native American [[Assiniboine]] chief who traveled a very long distance to visit Washington, DC in 1831 and 1832, and whose portraits were painted by [[George Catlin]]. As far as I can see, this student editor created a fictional subsequent life story, including the extraordinary claim that this man fought at the [[Battle of the Little Bighorn]] in 1876, when he would have been about 82 years old. I learned that he was actually murdered in about 1835. So, my question to you is what should be done about this student? Should the instructor be notified? If my interpretation of the facts is correct, should this student's university take some disciplinary action? [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 03:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:Just a small note - sometimes in these high-trust/high-context cultures, stories are passed down verbally between generations.  It's possible the student based some of his facts on verbal stories rather than written accounts and scholarly research.  And we know how the [[telephone game]] comes into play.  I've had that problem before when writing Hawaiian articles.  It may not be intentional on the students part to deceive.--v/r - [[User:TParis|T]][[User_talk:TParis|P]] 04:29, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::{{u|TParis}}, that explanation may be exculpatory with regards to some anonymous new editor adding content out of the blue, with no knowledge of our policies and procedures. This person was editing in connection with a course at a campus of the [[University of California]],  a prestigious and highly selective institution, and overseen by the [[Wiki Education Foundation]]. And the editor added references, which do not seem to verify that content, and which looks deceptive to me. And they made a exceptional claim about a very famous battle with about 500 deaths that was the worst defeat of the United States Army during their war with Native American forces. This battle has been studied intensively by military historians for nearly 150 years, and I am unable to find a scrap of evidence of participation by an 82 year old Assiniboine chief. It comes off like an anecdote recycled from some Hollywood film like [[Little Big Man (film)]]. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 05:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::{{U|Cullen328|Cullen}}, please don't use the word exculpatory in polite society. Thank you.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 12:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Bbb23}}, just for you, I will try to avoid using that word again. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::Cullen, last thing we want is for {{u|Bbb23}} to be upset. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Fascinating. Lets start with the first ref added for the text "As a young man, Wi-jún-jon became a warrior and participated in a number of battles and skirmishes against the U.S. Army as part of the broader resistance to American encroachment on Lakota land and resources" and which he calls "Wi-jún-jon, a Sioux Chief" while the source is actually titled "Wi-Jun-Jon - The Pigeon's Egg Head Going to Washington : Returning to his home "  He's got the title wrong and it clearly doesn't mention Sioux (how can this editor be so incompetent to say Sioux, let alone Lakota which he also uses this source for. In no way does this source back any of the text.
:::His source "From Pantheon to Indian Gallery:Art and Sovereignty on the Early Nineteenth-Century Cultural Frontier" is used to back battles in 1876 and 1876 (not early 19th c) says nothing about battles. I can't check the other sources but nothing excuses this misrepresentation of sources or the incompetence about tribal names. I think this needs following up. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 07:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Oh, {{U|Doug Weller}}, you're right: the misrepresentation of that source is really bad. Nothing that is claimed to come from that article is actually in there. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::Aside from the question of whether the University ought to take some sort of action with regards to the student (which isn't really within our bailiwick as site administrators), I think that we need to be asking some questions of the instructor and whoever was overseeing that course from WikiEd. Is nobody involved checking what the students are writing against the sources they are using? The addition of fictional historical information to our articles, whether it was generated by an AI or a human, really ought not to be too difficult for an educator to discover and undo themselves, rather than leaving it to volunteers to find months after the fact. 
:::::I think I've reached the point now where I believe WikiEd projects are a net negative for this project - I cannot remember an instance where I saw either (a) a student editor making changes that were a benefit to the article they were working on, or (b) sticking around long enough to become capable of doing so. They're usually either sourced inappropriately, written inappropriately or, as in this case, factually dubious. I'm sure there are examples of good student editing - there must be, surely - but I've never chanced across one on my watchlist. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 12:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::You express my feelings exactly.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 12:46, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::I concur. It s not the student editor who needs correction, it is the instructor who needs our help to understand what their real world responsibilities are.
:::::::@[[User:Girth Summit|Girth Summit]] I understand your jaded feeling. There must be a handful of editors of good quality who have come though this route?  I say this as an act of faith. 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 16:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I think I read an interview in ''The Signpost'' with someone who had started regularly editing after first editing through WikiEd some months back. [[User:Eddie891|Eddie891]] <small>''<sup> [[User talk:Eddie891|Talk]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Eddie891|Work]]</sub>'' </small> 16:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, I'm not saying that it's never happened, I'm sure it must have. But in all the cases I've ever come across, student editors are entirely uncommunicative (they are presumably talking to their tutor, and perhaps other students, off-wiki, but they never respond to concerns from other editors); they are often willing to edit war to reinstate their edits (because they have not been instructed on our editing policies, and they do not take time to read them for themselves); they have not been instructed on how to write in an encyclopedic style (they more often go for a persuasive style of writing they use in their essays); and they frequently don't take time to evaluate their sources (which I find remarkable for university-level students, but it is very common). These observations apply to every single case of WikiEd editing I have come across randomly on my watchlist; I wish they didn't. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 18:09, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::[[User:Girth Summit]], my students weren't always communicative though I managed to coax them into responding, I think. On the other side, as an admin, I've gotten them to speak once or twice--but most often I could only get them or their teacher to communicate after blocking one or more accounts. Those were accounts which didn't go through WikiEd, which made it only worse, since none of them thought to identify themselves or their students as being part of a project. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:Could it not be the result of the student using AI? See [[AI hallucination]] [[User:Eddie891|Eddie891]] <small>''<sup> [[User talk:Eddie891|Talk]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Eddie891|Work]]</sub>'' </small> 11:43, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::https://gptzero.me/ says no. Not AI. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 12:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:{{re|Cullen328}} I found a lot of issues with this class too - see [[User_talk:Smartse#W._Ron_Allen]]. The student had interviewed the subject and did not understand what the problem with using that as a source was. Unfortunately my interactions with the instructor ({{noping|Nstrathman}}) were not positive either. It does seem as if there is a systematic problem with the way that the students are being taught to create content. [[User:Smartse|SmartSE]] ([[User talk:Smartse|talk]]) 14:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::Holy shit that's not good. I'm looking at [[Maria Emilia Castagliola]], which should have never been put in mainspace, certainly not in the condition it was in. Cullen, I do believe that the teacher is responsible here. The problem of academic honesty is for the student but not in this forum, of course--but no teacher should just let that slide. [[User:Girth Summit]], [[User:Timtrent]], I'm afraid that I am also inclined to think of it, now, as a net negative--and I say that having run a couple of those classes, and despite all the hard work that some of the Wiki Ed people are putting in. I got maybe a half dozen decent articles out of as many classes. It's a real shame, and a large part of it is what we teach in American universities and how we teach it--but I'll net get on that hobby horse now. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:33, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::<naïve mode> Can we send WikiEd to [[WP:IdeasForDeletion]]?</naïve mode> 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 16:51, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::It's not just American universities - I have a wikifriend (now RL friend) who has volunteered as an editor-mentor on a UK university-level course, who has had similarly discouraging experiences. I won't mention his username, since I think he volunteered on that course using his actual name, but if I remember correctly he said that every single one of the students ignored his advice about subjects and sourcing, and tried to write articles about non-notable amateur football (soccer) teams, friends who were trying to forge a career in music, etc. Every one of their articles was declined and eventually deleted, but the students got the credit for the course and didn't care. I don't think he's spent his time volunteering in that capacity again. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 18:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Yeah, what I learned is that it just takes a ton of work in-class with article topic selection. If a teacher isn't willing to put in that time, and in many cases to repeat, time and time again, NO DON'T WRITE YOUR ARTICLE ON SOME DUDE TUNING MUSTANGS, it's going to be a disaster. BTW I'm not saying "American universities" because I think others are different, but because I've never taught outside the US. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess that [[Carroll Shelby]] is the exception to the general rule that Mustang tuners are not notable. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 19:26, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::Oh, I didn't propose a rule: I was actually pointing at a specific one. ;) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

== Do you UTRS? ==

I have {{UTRS|79537 }} on the [[WIKT:griddle|griddle]]. [[User:Deepfriedokra|--  Deepfriedokra]] ([[User talk:Deepfriedokra|talk]]) 10:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
*Hmm, fascinating. Yeah, that is a real piece of work from a disturbed teenager--although User:Cheaha Summit is probably worse as a human being. The things we run into here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
*:What a waste of time. [[User:Deepfriedokra|--  Deepfriedokra]] ([[User talk:Deepfriedokra|talk]]) 14:03, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

== [[:2023–24 figure skating season]] ==

Drmies, could I persuade you to take a peek at what's going on at [[:2023–24 figure skating season]], and have a little come-to-Jesus meeting with [[User:Bayreuth0115]]?  He/she persists in reverting edits designed to reduce the bulk and fancruft in the article, and refuses to engage on the talk page.  Even a report at ANI has had no effect on his/her behavior.  You're always so good at handling these editors, I thought you might be willing to take a shot at least getting him/her to the talk page.  Thanks! <span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<font color="blue">Dr.</font><font color="red">Margi</font></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 18:13, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
*Ha, you flatter me: I don't think I'm that good at actually resolving things, but the partial block is a great tool. I don't enjoy blocking them from editing the article but they left us no choice, didn't they. Thanks, and good luck with it, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:37, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
**Thank you! @[[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]], I invite you to check out [[List of highest junior scores in figure skating]], which is also appalling in very many ways. [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 23:06, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
***Will do! <span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<font color="blue">Dr.</font><font color="red">Margi</font></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 23:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
****Not a single Dutch person in there--cull it. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
*****You would think the Netherlands would be a heavy-hitter in figure skating, but they surprisingly are not. [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 00:57, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
******Not at all--it's all about speedskating. I'm not sure why, though. Tradition! And who can explain those. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
*******They skate from town to town when the canals freeze over; you’d think figure skating would be a big deal there. [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 01:03, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
********We're just trying to get to school on time, or to the bar. It's not about looking pretty. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
**Doc, you rock!  Bgsu98 needed a helping hand with a broom. You always come through. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<font color="blue">Dr.</font><font color="red">Margi</font></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 23:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
**:@[[User:Bgsu98|Bgsu98]], I looked at the juniors article.  Oh my gawd! <span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<font color="blue">Dr.</font><font color="red">Margi</font></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 02:13, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
*:https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:202.36.244.42&curid=74989605&diff=1178849071&oldid=1178828311 This doesn’t look promising. [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 14:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

== [[MDR Jump]] troll ==

Hi Drmies, [[Special:Contributions/Vorsicht auf der A38|this]] is a troll from dewiki. See [[de:Benutzer:--WikiUser1234945--/MDR-Troll]] for more information, I hope the translator makes it understandable. Have a nice weekend. [[User:--WikiUser1234945--|--WikiUser1234945--]] ([[User talk:--WikiUser1234945--|talk]]) 18:08, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
*Ugh. I tagged one of them as a master, and then found more, and now I'm learning even more. Sorry you're having to deal with this. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

== Important, very Wikipedia-related update ==

Jesus Christ, a shader tattoo machine against the vertebrae and shoulderblades hurts something fierce. Tattoo looks great though! Stay tuned at [[Tegaderm]], where I'll be using a pic of the tattoo healing to illustrate the product, just as soon as I get a release for the design. (More distantly, stay tuned at [[Tattoos and copyright]], which has been on my todo list ever since I wrote [[Mike Tyson's tattoos]].) <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]&#93;</sup> <small>(she&#124;they&#124;xe)</small> 04:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
:Thanks to the magic of the Wiki-layout engine, it appears that your tatoo was [[:File:Leaves on Rhine, Erbach.jpg]]. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 04:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
::Mm, maybe for the next one. On my forehead, maybe. (Hmm, would I need to include CC attribution for Gerda?) <span style="font-family:courier"> -- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;[[User talk:Tamzin|<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>]]&#93;</sup> <small>(she&#124;they&#124;xe)</small> 06:26, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
::: no credit needed, just enjoy ;) --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 21:39, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
:Wow--well I hope you heal nicely?! Congrats! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

== Accounts I blocked and you retagged... ==

Hey Drmies, thanks for figuring out that the two accounts were not new socks, but there was an earlier master for that sock farm, so I retagged. Hope you don't mind.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 22:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
:Should I change it to something other than confirmed, though?--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 22:15, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
::Ha, well here's the thing--I confirmed them with User:Hassan7246, but that one was not CU-confirmed to the HassanHussain one, so I tagged with the strongest confirmation that I have. In other words, I did not confirm them to HassanHussain. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
::OK: Hassan7246 is confirmed by NinjaRP to User:Millows, so all those are indeed CU-confirmed to HassanHussain. Good! [time passes] Well well well well, instead of a sock farm run out of Pakistan or India, these accounts were made much closer to home--and by a student or possibly a staffer. Interesting. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:54, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

== Requesting Advice ==

I was wondering if you had any experience with unblock requests as an admin.

COI user Palmstarmedia followed my advice by admitting to his sins, begging forgiveness, and promising to follow the rules in the future. He did something called a UTRS appeal, where they told him to make another unblock request that more directly addresses the reasons he was blocked.

So he comes to me, his consultant, asking how to comply with that feedback, but I don't see any way to more directly address the block rationale than what he's done already. His concern is regarding some poorly-cited lawsuits added by an SPA IP about his one-person company. Seems like notability and BLPGROUP are both potential issues.

I'm not asking you to unblock him. Just hoping for some advice on what he needs to do to correct his conduct and make a better unblock request through proper channels (or if he should just give up). 

-Sincerely,
That terrible paid editor that writes facts with citations :-p
[[User:CorporateM|CorporateM]] ([[User_talk:CorporateM|Talk]]) 22:11, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
*{{U|Yamla}}, {{U|331dot}}, {{U|Deepfriedokra}}, {{U|Cullen328}}, so we have a COI editor here at [[User talk:Palmstarmedia]]--I looked over the unblock requests and as usual they go agonizingly slowly step by step (imagine if these editors ''started'' by reading the policies!). I think the only step I'm missing is "neutral with secondary sources". Do y'all foresee an unblock? They're clearly a COI editor, but at least we'll know what they are, and from what CorpM says here (I haven't looked at the article), there may be some issues that need addressing.{{pb}}Corp, I hope you didn't tell them to grovel; there's no need to grovel, but what they do need is to show at least ''some'' basic understanding of what an encyclopedia is. You know what it is, you wrote real articles... Is everything going well? Send me a DM if I can make some money: I hate my job. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:55, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
*:I don't generally like to stand in the way of things like this, and I won't here. As long as they understand their requests won't automatically be accepted, unblocking is okay with me. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 23:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
*::I do not object to an unblock, but I have no interest in delving into the content dispute. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 23:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::No objection to an unblock.  Do as you will shall be the whole of the law.  What 331 dot said. [[User:Deepfriedokra|--  Deepfriedokra]] ([[User talk:Deepfriedokra|talk]]) 00:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:Every white-hat COI has to grovel for the time/attention of volunteer editors that are more interested in pop-stars and football players than whatever their company does. The trick is, convincing their pride that groveling is not what they're doing. Regarding the content dispute, I'll pry suggest BLPN to him, since it's a one-person company covered by BLPGROUP. Yah, I'm doing well - about to go on vacation. I'm a lawyer now, part-time. [[User:CorporateM|CorporateM]] ([[User_talk:CorporateM|Talk]]) 00:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

: Drmies, Since the person in question mainly appears to be working on things about his company as indicated by the quite obvious SPA user name, wouldn't giving them non-main space only editing make sense? Under the new requested user name that is, not the role account one. I think it makes sense, because he should be making edit requests to work on his company's article rather than directly editing anyways. [[User:Graywalls|Graywalls]] ([[User talk:Graywalls|talk]]) 16:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

:So they're free to edit, including their own company page after 3 months, it seems? I'm not trying to challenge your decision but what would they need to be able to edit the article on their own company for when they can use edit request? [[User:Graywalls|Graywalls]] ([[User talk:Graywalls|talk]]) 19:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
::Yes. I don't feel the need to hand out life sentences all the time. If the partial block runs out and they abuse the privilege, it can be reinstated. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Just to chime in uninvited, editors with a COI are not ''forbidden'' from editing their articles directly, just "strongly discouraged", because it is hard to be neutral with a COI (but not impossible). Therefore, I cannot argue with Drmies' idea of a temporary block to hopefully hammer that point home to the editor in question, but then leave it up to them whether they want to play by the rules. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 12:14, 12 October 2023 (UTC) {{tps}}

== IP [[Special:Contributions/https://181.26.4.200|181.26.4.200]] user talk trolling ==

They seem to be doing the same thing you rangeblocked them for a year ago (anti-AIDS trolling) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:181.26.4.200&diff=1179789393&oldid=1179789032 1]. <span style="font-family:Serif">[[User:Asparagusus|<span style="color:#562">'''—asparagusus'''</span>]] [[User talk:Asparagusus|<span style="color:#682">(interaction)</span>]] [[User:Asparagusus/Sprouts|<sup style="color:#050">''sprouts!''</sup>]]</span> 12:57, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
*Gotcha--thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

== Requesting a CIR block ==

Despite you and ''many'' other editors offering guidance and warning, {{noping|Light prism2020}} has continued their addition of poorly sourced/irrelevant content, taking the material they originally added to [[Christianity]] and stitching it to [[History of Christianity]]. It's clear that the message isn't getting through or that [[WP:CIR|they are incapable]] of editing responsibly. ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 17:17, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
:Also, the same user appears to be behind the account {{noping|Mithra follower}}, though I see no indication that this was sockpuppetry so much as someone forgetting their password. ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 17:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
:I was looking into [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mithraism&diff=prev&oldid=1179963211 this edit] myself when Pbritti reverted it, because much of what it says conflicts with my understanding of the topic. The citations for the December 25 claim fail verification; because the cited sections of Vermaseren and Clauss say nothing at all about December 25, and the Tertullian.org page (though not a source I would cite for separate reasons) correctly states that the hoary assumption that Mithras was celebrated on December 25 was debunked some time ago. I don't see any point in tolerating an editor who simply fabricates citations like this. [[User:A. Parrot|A. Parrot]] ([[User talk:A. Parrot|talk]]) 18:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
::OK--simple things first: that's not an account run by them, as far as I can tell. I agree that we are well into CIR/NOTHERE territory, but I suggest you take this to ANI for a few reasons. The first, I think we know where this is headed but I would like for them to see that this wouldn't be the dictum of one particular admin. Second, there's their surprising comment on the talk page, which reads [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Christianity&diff=prev&oldid=1179744047 like it was written by an AI], and I'm kind of curious to see what others have to say about it. [[User:A. Parrot|A. Parrot]], if this goes to ANI, please make the 25 Dec point there: by itself that's already damning. Oh, one reason that I think ANI and a community decision is the better way is that I have this vain hope that if such zealous/determined editors see that the community speaks out against it, they might be less inclined to consider socking. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Drmies and {{u|A. Parrot}}, I've opened an ANI discussion [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Light prism2020: misuse of sources, AI, and other issues|here]]. ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 16:23, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

== About [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Decadent (band)]] ==

Hello Drmies, first of all, I'm sorry if I was a little rude when talking to you, but there was something you didn't know much about the contest, so I made a new article. [[EBS Hello Rookie Contest]]. I would like to show you through this article that this competition is "a popular and influential competition, hosted by, broadcasted by, public institutions." 

Anyway, I've also added other reliable sources in [[Decadent (band)]] and I would like to you see that. thank you [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 06:54, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

:I might have been a little rude when I talked to you before because I was a little angry to be honest. I'm sorry about it, but please make a second judgment. There are reliable sources, major awards (In the first article, they only mentioned once, but I mentioned another nomination now) and competition. Of course it's your judgment, but I wanted to talk about this. [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 07:06, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
::Of course, the competition article is not something I just made to show you, but it's really famous in South Korea, so I wrote it. But I would like you to know that this competition is as prestigious as this. [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 07:10, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
:::I gotta say, that's a pretty impressive piece of work. I can't judge it without translating all the sources, but well done. I'm not going to change my mind on the notability (a third place in a rookie contest, I am not that impressed), but I appreciate your note. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:20, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Okay I got it, first, thank you for your kitten. So I proved in a reasonable way that it's famous, and that's a good thing. And of translation, I honestly wouldn't be able to translate all those 14 sources accurately. It's not easy to translate the source of long texts, especially because some texts are professional critics (they sometimes adopt metaphorical quotes or ambiguous words) so it's really hard to translate them as a whole. But maybe it's possible to translate them using a translator and then fix some weird sentences. It's 4.47 here (in KST), for now I'm going to sleep, but I'll try to translate some sources in the morning. [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 19:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::No, I'm not asking you to translate these sources, not at all. That's not my point. Rather, I'm saying that I'm not going to change my mind based on that one third place in the contest. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::I understand what you're saying. And you have a point, but may I ask you about why you told me that this competition is something that is not worth noting, even though I've filled out enough information about it? Regarding this part, I also would like to know the reason why you think it's not, because for me, I gave you the rationale that this competition would be a major competition because it was held by a state agency, broadcasted, and it proved its influence and reputation with reliable sources
::::::And even if the competition doesn't impressed, I think this is something you could check out because I put in other reliable sources. Of course, the sources are in Korean, but you can see that there are reliable sauces that mainly deal with them. 

::::::I'm sorry to bother you a little bit on this part, but I would like to know your clearer reason on this part because the debate continues to be controversial, and I have a different opinion from you. [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 01:52, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::It just doesn't seem that big or notable or important to me. It may be notable by our standards, but given the enormous amount of coverage of K-pop in Wikipedia, one would expect that this event would have been written up ''ad nauseam'' in the way that other awards are. Good luck with the AfD. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:33, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I won't call your opinion wrong, but I also want you to know that there are various sources in that document, and even column articles about the contest. It doesn't make sense to see this purely as an advertisement.
::::::::But I think the same answer will come back even if I tell you this part. So I won't bother you with this topic.
::::::::To be honest, I'm really stressed out these days, in Wikipedia. I'm not a big expert, but I've worked in this industry in the past, so I tend to have some professional knowledge at least. I also contributed to a small webzine as a freelancer before. Therefore, there is no information on Korean indie music here, and I am writing it, but even though I write it with various sources, I feel very lacking. Also, even though I'm writing famous bands regardless of my taste from a neutral point of view (I even rarely listen to the music from the Decadent I mentioned this time either), I get very stressed out when others misunderstand it as an ad. Of course, we can open a wiki project, but we don't know how many people will join us
::::::::I'll do my job, and maybe I won't be able to work on a lot of documents because I'm going back to work after long holidays, but I'll take my beliefs and write documents on Wiki.
::::::::I express my admiration to you for working on articles over a long period of time on Wiki.  Of course we had different opinions, but I never had any malice to you. If I knew you in real life, you and I could have become good friends. Next time we meet in a discussion, let's hope to meet each other with a smile. If you read this article, I hope you leave a reply. You can write long like me, or you can just leave one sentence. Because I just want to confirm that you read my reply.
::::::::PS. It doesn't matter if you tell me I'm writing K-Pop. But if you meet people who write other Korean indie music here, and if you say that they write K-Pop, it may make them sad. Because it's like when you meet a fan of [[Radiohead]], [[Yo La Tengo]], [[Belle & Sebastian]]....but if you tell him he is a fan of [[Taylor Swift]], [[One Direction]], he maybe be so sad. Anyway, I just want to tell you that they can be happier if you tell them that they write Korean indie, Korean rock, or K-indie, rather than K-Pop [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 01:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Don't stress out. I've been listening to John Coltrane recently. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::Thank you for your answer. And he's a really good musician. I listened to his music and Miles Davis sometimes when I was a kid, they are legendary artists. [[User:올해의수상자|올해의수상자]] ([[User talk:올해의수상자|talk]]) 01:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

== Another sock of [[User:Viva la independencia]] ==

FYI, another sock of the above: [[User:DerbyCountyinUSA]]. Cheers, [[User:DerbyCountyinNZ|<span style="background:orange; color:blue">DerbyCountyinNZ</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:DerbyCountyinNZ|Talk]] [[Special:Contribs/DerbyCountyinNZ|Contribs]])</sup> 00:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
*{{U|Discospinster}} already blocked. It's pretty childish, huh. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:51, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
**Reminiscent of the immaturity that was prevalent in the GRG fan-club days. [[User:DerbyCountyinNZ|<span style="background:orange; color:blue">DerbyCountyinNZ</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:DerbyCountyinNZ|Talk]] [[Special:Contribs/DerbyCountyinNZ|Contribs]])</sup> 05:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
***Hmm you'll have to refresh my memory. I seem to not retain names of LTAs very well, haha. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:20, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

== ''One in a Million'' ==

Hi!
Could you please tell me why my edits on ''[[One in a Million (Aaliyah album)|One in a Million]]'' are "too detailed" when each region has its own release date? What is it about the dates that is excessive and how should we emphasize the difference in release dates without going too deep? Thank you! [[User:Moonlighttt|Bronx Langford]] 17:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
*Why do we have all that? Does it matter? Is there something special about this or that release, or re-release? What I see is a table full of dates with no indication of why any of it is relevant. Some of it seems to have actual sourcing, not just some primary link--maybe there's something in those sources that explains why there's relevance there. Thank you, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:12, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
**The album actually wasn't always available globally, and the box set deluxe edition was released for the first time. The Aug. 20 date is related solely to the US, so why don't we emphasize that the album was released in those formats in other countries too? [[User:Moonlighttt|Bronx Langford]] 17:35, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
***Well I'm not sure how exciting that is, but if secondary sources discuss that then it can be worthwhile talking about--by which I mean writing actual text, not just listing a verified date. Again, why would such a date matter, esp. in this kind of granularity? Read the sources, the secondary sources, and get some writing out of that: that, IMO, is progress. I think [[User:OkIGetIt20]] wouldn't object to verified and interesting text ''about'' new or re-releases or whatever. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:55, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
***:Aw, I saw this on my watchlist and expected to find a thread with someone telling you that you are one in a million. Instead it's just about you trimming a pop music article. Sad times. Well, ''I'' think you're one in a million. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 19:16, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
***:@[[User:Drmies|Drmies]], the re-releases that were added by Bronx Langford were trivial. The only re-release for the album that is truly significant is the one from 2021. For over a decade Aaliyah's music wasn't available for purchase or streaming and during the 20th year of her death anniversary all of her albums were digitally available for the first time in over a decade. [[User:OkIGetIt20|OkIGetIt20]] ([[User talk:OkIGetIt20|talk]]) 21:06, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

== Tony’s Beach ==

I don’t think it’s a COI, I actually think it’s a Hoax. I thought the notable lifeguard section was suspicious and more juvenile than a COI editor would usually input. [[User:HickoryOughtShirt?4|HickoryOughtShirt?4]] ([[User talk:HickoryOughtShirt?4|talk]]) 17:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
*Maybe, but there is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Long_Beach_Township_Beach_Patrol&diff=prev&oldid=1177518702 this]--and CU cannot confirm they're the same... But the complete absence of Google hits make me think you're right. Do as you like--delete it and block the editor, that's fine with me. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
**I'll [[WP:BOLD|be bold]] and delete it. FYI, {{noping|Tonys Beach Enthusiast}} was just created. [[User:HickoryOughtShirt?4|HickoryOughtShirt?4]] ([[User talk:HickoryOughtShirt?4|talk]]) 00:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
***[[User:HickoryOughtShirt?4|HickoryOughtShirt?4]], thank you very much--pleasure working with you! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

== [[João Palhinha]] et al. ==

User, with another IP, has reinstated the style of play section in intro (i relocated it to its own section, they put it again in intro, and with a POV statement ("regarded as one of the best defensive midfielders in the world"). In [[User:Dreamy Jazz]]'s talk, we (not only ME, WE!) are now being threatened with legal consequence if this person is not unblocked.

I have already apologised again in DJ's talkpage. [[User:RevampedEditor|RevampedEditor]] ([[User talk:RevampedEditor|talk]]) 11:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
:You shouldn't be apologizing to a block-evading IP making legal threats regardless of the merits of the block of Pinzunski. I've blocked the IP for one week. Even if it's determined that Pinzunski is probably not a sock of Martimc123, based on what they've done post-block, it's unlikely they'll be unblocked anytime soon.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 14:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Palhinha's article needlessly enlarged, as several other Portuguese international players back in the day (would also not be one bit surprised if the pic found in the infobox is copyrighted). I got all the proof i needed regarding who's who, i leave this article in peace because i don't need this in my REAL life (and/or any legal threats on my person), stress is really taking its toll (and this is the LAST time i ever report anyone, be it vandals or socks (the latter true or fictional) there are lots of people here well equiped to do that). 

Sorry to all parties involved again, cheers! --[[User:RevampedEditor|RevampedEditor]] ([[User talk:RevampedEditor|talk]]) 11:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

== [[Frank Salerno]] ==

Apparently that IP is registered now. &nbsp; &ndash;[[User:Skywatcher68|Skywatcher68]] ([[User talk:Skywatcher68|talk]]) 18:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

== If you have a free minute ... ==

Back in July you commented in [[Talk:Beall's List#Example of why Beall started his list in the first place|a discussion]] at [[Talk:Beall's List]].  There has been some activity there in the last few days that in my opinion could use some additional attention; my personal attempts to address the situation have not helped, unfortunately.  (Not urgent in any sense.)  Thanks.  --[[User:JayBeeEll|JBL]] ([[User_talk:JayBeeEll|talk]]) 17:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*Thanks--I will have a look, later. I was thinking about the list only the other day, when I ran into a Nigerian resume. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*Well, you should welcome them! It makes talking to them a lot easier. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

==Remember the rabbi?==
Hi, Drmies. Remember [[Shmuly Yanklowitz|this article]]? I feel [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/ECC2007 this contributions list] is interesting, and have posted a COI template on the user's page. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 21:09, 18 October 2023 (UTC).
*Hmm a short list of SPAs and socks? ECC2007, Rota CCE21 (against our subject), Jibly411, Dtj2016!, Dtj16, FactChecker18. God that article is awful. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
**Thanks for removing some PR trivia. I see that a lot of stuff that I and you both removed in 2018 is right back, now updated with boasts of further good deeds. I probably won't remove it again, as I'd like to be able to sanction COI users; compare the ongoing discussion at [[User talk:ECC2007]]. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 20:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC).
***It is such an awful article. Where to start? "It's verified". Verified fluff, yeah. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:05, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

== Kenan and Kel episodes ==

I saw you thanked my edit yesterday and still having trouble with this user, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Kenan_%26_Kel_episodes&curid=5870505&diff=1181137830&oldid=1181136069]. To me it looks like he is chaning air dates without valid sources, changing episode order that has already been established, and changing words that don't really need to be changed. He has done this with a few other shows and I reverted, but keeps going back on this show. I already have warned him two times in addition to explaining to look at several different polices. I had an issue with another user awhile back, but maybe I am over looking it at the writing, but the directors/writers, production code changes, and numbers changes should be a no go. Can you provide some advice? [[User:Magical Golden Whip|Magical Golden Whip]] ([[User talk:Magical Golden Whip|talk]]) 02:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

==AfD oops==
[[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Vectra_AI_(2nd_nomination)]] Can you help me get this cleared out? I changed mind, but hit continue in Twinkle and it went through, so was trying to just undo the nom. [[User:Graywalls|Graywalls]] ([[User talk:Graywalls|talk]]) 21:08, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
:{{TPS}} {{ping|Graywalls}} I closed it for you.  My preference would have been to delete it per IAR and the good of the encyclopedia, but my fear is it would confuse the AfD bots and the log page. I hope that's helpful. If you really prefer it outright deleted and someone tells me I'm just being a worrywart, then delete away else I'll do it myself. [[User:78.26|<span style="border:1px solid black;color:red; padding:1px;background:1h5h1h; color: #008B8B;"><b>78.26</b></span>]] <sub>([[User talk:78.26|spin me]] / [[Special:Contributions/78.26|revolutions]])</sub> 21:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
::It would make it look like an "unsuccessful AfD" just the same as something withdrawn days later, not a minute later and could discourage a future re-nom as "having been kept twice". In this case, I wanted to do deeper [[WP:BEFORE]] analysis and was going to close out, but hit submit and Twinkle populated multiple different places that I had to manually revert.  [[User:Graywalls|Graywalls]] ([[User talk:Graywalls|talk]]) 22:02, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Graywalls}} yeah I get that. I'm going to outright delete it, and if folks yell at me, they yell at me. [[User:78.26|<span style="border:1px solid black;color:red; padding:1px;background:1h5h1h; color: #008B8B;"><b>78.26</b></span>]] <sub>([[User talk:78.26|spin me]] / [[Special:Contributions/78.26|revolutions]])</sub> 22:38, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
::::No yelling from me, at least not after the first half against Tennessee. 78.26, thanks for checking in--I was making gumbo. Yeah I burned the roux the first time... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

== [[Defeated Sanity]] ==
Your revert of Second Skin's edit was in turn reverted by an IP, which has previously backed up an argument put forward by Second Skin on a talk page. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Black_metal&diff=prev&oldid=1150439841] Mysterious!  [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 12:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*Ha, indeed! That IP's talk page, [[User talk:207.11.71.205]], is interesting. Even funnier is their attempt at [[reductio ad absurdum]]--"might as well just get rid of the examples" sounds like a decent idea to me. But, eh, {{U|Black Kite}}, or should I say Raw Black Kite, or Blackened Kite, or Technical Black Kite, I don't know if you were ever a metalhead, but that genre business in metal is beyond silly. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:30, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
** The genre issue in metal is indeed ridiculous. Never really a metalhead myself, I was more a [[Gothic rock|goth]] in my teenage years (and I'm even going to see [[The Mission (band)|this lot]] next week).  I tend to stick mainly to an axis of [[post-rock]], [[folk-rock]] and punk these days. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 16:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
***Hmm I just listened to "Butterfly on a Wheel" and "Tower of Strength"--neither of em sounded familiar. Maybe I was too busy listening to the Cult and, my favorite, [[Eat (band)|Eat]]". Oh and my other favorite, [[Prefab Sprout]]. New favorite? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIDiI5kyBDQ This.] [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:21, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

== Please confirm ==

Hi, could you please check whether {{noping|GultenTasgin}} is a sock of {{noping|Andriyrussu}}? The behavior is absolutely clear, but it could be coincidence. I indefinitely blocked Andriy for personal attacks. They've already evaded their block with an IP (I'm not asking you to confirm that, of course). They had been edit-warring at [[2023–24 Moldovan Super Liga]] about the spelling of Serhiy Molochko's first name (Andriyrussu wanted it spelled with iy at the end and the other editor wanted it spelled Serhii). GT has reinstated the master's version. They've also created [[Draft:Serhiy Molochko]]. Finally, they've created an elaborate userpage, which is somewhat similar to Andriyrussu's userpage (which you might remember from when you blocked the user last month). Thanks.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIDiI5kyBDQ Sure]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:36, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*OK, I threw in [[User:TroyonX]] for free. Listen, they're not from Turkey. AlwaysLearning, whose current name I can't remember, knows this sock: same country as him, but I found no others. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
**Gee, two for the price of one, and TroyonX is globally locked to boot. Another obvious userpage. Yeah, I know they're not from Turkey. I don't know who AlwaysLearning was/is, but my belief (based on the IP range I blocked) is they are editing from Portugal. I doubt they are actually Portuguese, but that is apparently where they are living. There's some other indirect evidence to support that as well. Obviously, I don't ask you to confirm my suspicions. Apparently, you and I are among the few idiots still working on Wikipedia this late on a Sunday night. Thanks much for checking.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 01:20, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
***After I posted this I saw your block, and then I knew that you knew. AlwaysLearning is also called Vasco (or VASCO), and he's a Portuguese soccer editor who's been here as long as I have. They drop by every now and then, and interestingly enough he hates Christiano Ronaldo. Oh, he's actually right here on this page--[[User:RevampedEditor]]. Vasco, who's this longtime soccer sock that you keep talking to? Does GultenTasgin look like him? Bbb, it's a Bama treat tonight: Jalen Hurts (Eagles) plays against Tua Tagovailoa (Dolphins). Apparently there's twelve Alabama players on these two teams, and I got nothing better to do so I'm watching. ;) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
****Oh yeah, I know RE. He's the one that kept apologizing because he thought an editor was a sock of Martimc23. BTW, I just noticed that your initial response above linked to a YouTube. Not a big fan of rapping (big surprise), but I enjoyed his voice. Just finished cleaning up a section in his article about a lawsuit filed against him.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 01:45, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*****Right, you were there. Maybe Martimc23 is the one. Yeah, I like Black Sherif--I know of him because of some edits that I saw go by. I think you know I'm a fan of African cultures, and while this really isn't my style either, I like it, and Rosie does too--esp. that line where he holds up the fork, haha. And "I was young, what you expect of me"--that's right, it's OK, you were young. We all were! I like the video too, BTW: it's so weird, so full of non sequiturs. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:50, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

== Declan Rice ==

Hello, hope you're well. I noticed you blocked an IP address for making disruptive edits on the [[Declan Rice]] page on 20 October after several warnings on their talk page. It seems that same user is making the exact same edits as soon as the ban has been lifted, please could you look into this? [[User:Michaeldble|Michaeldble]] ([[User talk:Michaeldble|talk]]) 15:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
== Harvard Letter Controversy ==

How can you say it's not news? There's literally hundreds of articles about it. It deserves to go on the page. [[User:MaskedSinger|MaskedSinger]] ([[User talk:MaskedSinger|talk]]) 17:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
*Disagree. NOTNEWS applies. One letter, in hundreds of years of history, that's a poster child for UNDUE. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
**So what? It's not just the letter. It's the backlash that followed it. If you don't like the edit, take it up on the talk page. [[User:MaskedSinger|MaskedSinger]] ([[User talk:MaskedSinger|talk]]) 17:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
***It's not about "liking". [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
****Its legitimate content added with legitimate sources. It is news - very much news. [[User:MaskedSinger|MaskedSinger]] ([[User talk:MaskedSinger|talk]]) 17:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
*****And that's what newspapers are for. Stop pestering me here: discuss it on the talk page. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:43, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
*****Drmies told you it's [[WP:NOTNEWS|"NOTNEWS"]], which is that the role of Wikipedia is NOT to serve as a newspaper. To insist back that "This is very much news" is basically proving his point. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 18:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
******I meant it was news in the sense that its newsworthy for Wikipedia, just as any notable news is added to the page. I dont believe it qualifies at [[WP:NOTNEWS]]. The original letter was signed a week ago and this story is still going. This isn't a first-hand news report on a breaking story and nor is this routine news. Depending on your application of [[WP:NOTNEWS]] you could have a case for removing just about anything you wanted from Wikipedia. [[User:MaskedSinger|MaskedSinger]] ([[User talk:MaskedSinger|talk]]) 18:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
*******Just noting that [[Talk:Harvard_University#Blaming_Israel_for_War_Letter|a talk page discussion has been started]]. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC) {{tps}}
********I saw that Primefac, thanks. Oh, the storm may have died down. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*********{{small|[[Special:Diff/1180724831|What if I don't like bullet points?]] Eh? [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 14:18, 18 October 2023 (UTC)}}
**********Then the wiki-ghost of Rexx will haunt you. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:05, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
***********Doktoro has been performing colonectomy, I see.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 13:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
************Well well well, the return of [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]]. I thought of you the other day when I was trying a new recipe for pecan pie. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:33, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*************You cannot fool me, Doktoro.  I saw that you pulled your university press book of beer off the shelf.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 16:50, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
{{od}}Books about beer are typically boring. My book, on the other hand, is full of fascinating essays, and it has (color!) pictures--not bad for an academic publication. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:55, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

== What is a JFC ==

Hey Drmies, in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Death_of_Omar_Daraghmeh&diff=prev&oldid=1181594816 this comment], you mentioned a "JFC" was strong but not warranted. I just search for what a JFC is (i.e. [[WP:JFC]]) and can't find anything. I've already [[WP:COAL|coaled]] out of the discussion and don't plan to comment further. But, I am curious, what is a JFC? In over 20,000 edits, I haven't ever heard of that wiki short-hand before. Is that like a trout slap? '''The [[User:WeatherWriter|Weather Event Writer]]''' ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|Talk Page)]] 01:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

*Jesus fucking Christ. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 01:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
**Ah ok. <small>Facepalm... '''The [[User:WeatherWriter|Weather Event Writer]]''' ([[User talk:WeatherWriter|Talk Page)]] 01:10, 24 October 2023 (UTC)</small>
***A slightly different version, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1108816936 Holy shit... Jesus Christ]. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 01:13, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
***It's all good. But I hope you see my point--"Hamas accuses Israel" does not a fact make. SFR, stop cussing on my talk page: it's a happy place. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:14, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
****Oh shit, sorry about that. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*****What did the good Drmies just fucking tell you? -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 01:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
******Something about [[Leffe]] and &hellip; erm &hellip; Belgium.  There, I said it.  The rudest one of them all, and it was in Doktoro's OUP dictionary too.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 06:11, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*******Oh, I love Belgium. You can walk into a supermarket there and find an entire aisle with nothing but [[kriek]]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

== Talk:Chris Sharp ==

Looking at [[User:Chrissharp80]]'s comments and mass attacks on the talk page today, I think it's time to show this user the door. Instantly jumps to confrontation, attacks and accusations without even reading anything that's been provided. [[User:Canterbury Tail|<b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b>]] [[User talk:Canterbury Tail|<i style="color: Blue;">talk</i>]] 14:44, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
:And [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AChris_Sharp&diff=1181653244&oldid=1181252241 this looks like] a clear legal threat to me. [[User:Canterbury Tail|<b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b>]] [[User talk:Canterbury Tail|<i style="color: Blue;">talk</i>]] 15:02, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
::You know, if you got the bit... ;) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:11, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Yeah, trying to stay away from the very very vaguely "involved". Actually no, I'm not involved, this is a random article I came across. [[User:Canterbury Tail|<b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b>]] [[User talk:Canterbury Tail|<i style="color: Blue;">talk</i>]] 15:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
== Hello, Dolly! ==
[[File:Dolly Blount Lamar at a Macon, Georgia Confederate Reunion in 1911.png|thumb|Lamar at a Confederate Reunion in Macon in 1911.  Picture from her autobiography.{{sfn|Gillespie McRae|1998|p=803}}]]
* {{cite journal|journal=The Georgia Historical Quarterly|volume=82|issue=4|year=1998|title=Caretakers of Southern Civilization: Georgia Women and the Anti-Suffrage Campaign, 1914&ndash;1920|author1-first=Elizabeth Gillespie|author1-last=McRae|pages=801&ndash;828|jstor=40583906}}
* {{cite book|chapter=Foreword|author1-first=Malcolm|author1-last=Lester|title=Southern Writers in the Modern World|series=Mercer University Lamar Memorial Lectures|volume=1|editor1-first=Donald|editor1-last=Davidson|publisher=University of Georgia Press|year=2010|isbn=9780820338101}}
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 17:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*I have found an English Professor, Doktoro, and will sneak xem in without mentioning the English bit.  After all, xe does xyr professoring at Vanderbilt.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
**This is ''in addition'' to Davidson.  Vanderbilt seems heavily represented here, Doktoro.  Alas, I cannot see how to hush this up.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 07:59, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
***Oh no, Doktoro!  [[Antoinette Elizabeth Taylor]] is connected to Vanderbilt, too!  I have carefully hidden this in a  {{tl|cite journal}} where no-one shall see it, or think to go and read other encyclopaedias or University of Missouri Press books ({{ISBN|9780826264282}}), though.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 09:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Great work, Uncle--thank you so much. Let's hope no one spots the editorial commentary. Listen, I got interested in her because, it seems, she was instrumental in the naming of [[Sidney Lanier High School]]; local lore has it that she and the UDC got the school to be named thusly. And in keeping with that Southern chivalry stuff, Baldwin (the first Lanier, so to speak) is larded with chivalric imagery on tiles and other ornamental features. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*I have found nothing to that effect, Doktoro.  Your interest in the ornamental features of [[Alec Baldwin|Baldwin]] could be misinterpreted, moreover.  In addition to finding the connection between Vanderbilt and [[Antoinette Elizabeth Taylor]] when reading about your Dolly, I have found some sources that document some of the political speech of {{article|Mildred Lewis Rutherford}} which indicate that the neutrality criticism on the talk page might well have a good case.  I wonder whether [[User:LadyofShalott|The Onion Lady]] is still interested in this subject a decade later.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 01:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
**Ha, sure but "whitewashed" is kind of a shitty way to phrase it--as if it was there, but then removed. "Incomplete" is a better word. I have Hale's ''Making Whiteness'' laying around here somewhere and I'll have another look. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]])
***{{harvnb|Case|2002}} cited in the article but used once has been very underused.  It goes into a lot of detail, including an amusing quote where a Texas newspaper offered her a calendar to tell her that it was in fact 1924 not 1865.  {{harvnb|McRae|1998}} above discusses the white supremacism, too.  {{JSTOR|40583086}} has "censoring school books" and the textbook revisionism in favour of a 'UDC version of "truth"', as well as a political speech by Rutherford making the argument that many of the [[Founding Fathers]] were slaveholders. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
****Yikes, yeah, I certainly was trying to cover that stuff, not whitewash it. I have no opposition to there being more coverage added. I am interested, but not sure I have the energy to tackle a big rewrite now myself. However if anyone wants to work on it, I'll be glad to do so together! <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 11:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC) Also, thanks, {{U|Uncle G}} for tagging me. I've been less active here than at some times, and had missed that talk page discussion. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 14:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
*****If you want to take a look at Doktoro's Dolly, slightly less extensively documented than [[Mildred Lewis Rutherford]], it is at [[User:Drmies/Dorothy Blount Lamar]]. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 17:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

== October music ==
{{User QAIbox
| title = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Places and songs 2023#17 Oct|October songs]]
| image = Leaves on Rhine, Erbach.jpg
| image_upright = 1.1
| bold = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Top|my story today]]
}}
My [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#6 Oct|story today]] is sad but great. -- [[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 19:31, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

A few more pics, and see my talk for what [[Tabea Zimmermann]] played ([[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#6 Oct|today's story]] on her birthday): I heard it, and it's on YouTube. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 21:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

More pics, and [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#17 Oct|today's story]] is on a birthday, and the real DYK was already on that birthday --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 19:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Today, it's a place that inspired me, [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#DYK for Hans Steinbrenner (sculptor)|musings]] if you have time. My [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Music|corner for memory and music]] has today a juxtaposition of what our local church choirs offer. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 12:44, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

I [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#29 Oct|thought of Brian Bouldton today]], and [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Brian Boulton and the ways to compromise|his ways to compromise]]. - I'm on vacation again, more pics to come, but too tired after church (pictured on my talk), hiking and paella. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 21:34, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

== Copyvios at [[Winchester College]] ==

Drmies, Franglaiseausud is rapidly adding one copyvio after another from https://www.winchestercollege.org/assets/files/uploads/Winchester%20College%20in%20the%2021st%20Century_Final_Vision.pdf after another to the Winchester College article. I think a block is the only solution now. [[User:Chiswick Chap|Chiswick Chap]] ([[User talk:Chiswick Chap|talk]]) 17:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
*You're right--sad but true. Thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

== November Articles for creation backlog drive ==

<div style="border: 2px solid #484898; background: #FFF; background-color:#98FB98; padding: 1ex 1ex 1ex 1.5ex; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1em; font-size: 99%">
[[Image:AFC-Logo.svg|75px|right]]
Hello Drmies: 

'''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation|WikiProject Articles for creation]]''' is holding a '''month long [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/November 2023 Backlog Drive|Backlog Drive]]!'''<br />
The goal of this drive is to '''reduce''' the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.

You may find [[:Category:AfC pending submissions by age]] or [[:Category:Pending AfC submissions|other categories and sorting]] helpful.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.<br />
There is a backlog of over {{Rounddown|{{formatnum:{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Pending AfC submissions}}|R}}|-2}} pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 13:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)</div>
<!-- Message sent by User:Illusion Flame@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/November_2023_Backlog_Drive/Invite_list&oldid=1182798216 -->
*Good luck with that, robot!  [[User:Drmies/Gwerz an Aotrou Nann]] was submitted to the ''real'' [[User talk:Drmies|Articles for creation]] back in May 2021.  And we all know that Doktoro works for pie, cheese, bacon, and beer, with the occasional joy of just ''being'' in the world of K-Pop; not for barnstars. &#9786; [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 07:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
**Oh dear, it slipped through the cracks? I take care of a couple of drafts every session; I see that we're down to about 3,000 from 3,400 yesterday, so that's progress. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 12:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

== Aquinas ==
* {{On AFD|Quaestiones Disputatae de Veritate (Thomas Aquinas)}}
Here's an amusing thought that I thought might amuse you too, Doktoro:
It occurred to me that if one worked hard enough one could probably show in-depth coverage in multiple published works ''in Latin''.
That would be a first for AFD.
We would probably need a Mediaevalist, though.
I just tried to see what I could make of ''de Cognitio Angelorum'' (Q. 8) and I turned up some cat named {{ill|Diego de Silva y Pacheco|es}} writing about it in Latin in 1663.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 14:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*Yeah, this medievalist can no longer claim any fluency in Latin... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:37, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

==Klan==
You work so fast. You deleted my addition while I was putting the citation in shape. [[User:Iss246|Iss246]] ([[User talk:Iss246|talk]]) 22:26, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*You can shape that citation all you want, but that doesn't make the quote worth inserting in the lead of that article. And just now you stuck it back in--with some decidedly non-neutral phrasing. Stop. Take it up on the talk page. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:48, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

@Drmies, I think you could help me with a contradiction I found in the KKK article. I wrote about the contradiction on the KKK talk page. I add that the sentence indicating that the KKK is the first organized terror organization in the U.S. belongs where I placed it because it is well documented. It is a neutral statement in that it is the truth about the KKK. The statement is sustained by an important source. I followed your advice about making the sentence formal and including the source in WP citation style. [[User:Iss246|Iss246]] ([[User talk:Iss246|talk]]) 01:35, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
*If it were me, I'd find a university press book, or something written by [[Brigitte L. Nacos]] and instead of getting someone's did-you-know chatty factoid down actually say something well analysed. {{divbox|brown||Tom Parker and Richard Sitter, who divide terrorism into four types, classify the Ku Klux Klan's activites as specifically "social exclusion" terrorism.{{sfn|Nacos|Barut|2021|p=541}}{{sfn|Nacos|2023|p=55}}{{sfn|Parker|Sitter|2016|p=202}}<p>{{reflist}}</p>}}[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
** {{cite book|title=The Cambridge History of Terrorism|editor1-first=Richard|editor1-last=English|editor1-link=Richard English|publisher=Cambridge University Press|year=2021|isbn=9781108470162|chapter=The History of Terrorism and Communication|author1-first=Brigitte L.|author1-last=Nacos|author1-link=Brigitte L. Nacos|author2-first=Melih|author2-last=Barut}}
** {{cite book|title=Terrorism and Counterterrorism|author1-first=Brigitte L.|author1-last=Nacos|author1-link=Brigitte L. Nacos|edition=7th|publisher=Taylor &amp; Francis|year=2023|isbn=9781000864144}}
** {{cite journal|author1-first=Tom|author1-last=Parker|author2-first=Nick|author2-last=Sitter|title=The Four Horsemen of Terrorism: It's Not Waves, It's Strains|journal=Terrorism and Political Violence|volume=28|issue=2|year=2016|pages=197&ndash;216|doi=10.1080/09546553.2015.1112277}}
*You are right about social exclusion terrorism but it is still naked terrorism. The Southern Poverty Law Center also indicates that the KKK is the oldest hate group in the U.S., or at least the oldest hate group that uses that name. According to the SPLC, the KKK in one incarnation or another, murdered thousands of African-Americans beginning with the conclusion of the Civil War. That is what I mean by naked terrorism. The first wave of KKK groups disbanded with the advent of Jim Crow laws but they eventually arose again.<p>I ask your help in addressing a contradiction in the KKK entry. The text indicates that Klansmen started wearing the hooded robes after 1910 but there is an illustration based on an 1870 photo that purports to show Klansmen wearing hoods. [[User:Iss246|Iss246]] ([[User talk:Iss246|talk]]) 04:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
**Well we're here to write what scholarship says about these things, not discuss our personal opinions of them.  I've said what I would write, and the sort of sources I would go looking for.  But like [[User:Drmies|Doktoro]] I have a lot on my plate already, and won't be looking at that article.  I might even have reached my quota that I permit myself for this week, with all of the California places, although I suspect I should give [[Lowrey, California]] a quick scan before [[User:Jengod|Jengod]] beats me to it and finds the school and the mines hiding behind the "unincorporated community" dren, and discovers the magic by which I know that the "M." stands for "Malay".  Or someone nominates it for deletion.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 12:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

== [[Draft:Ted Poor]] ==
Hi! Pay attention that four references on the list are from NY Times, just in case it was missed. [[User:Lkitrossky|lkitross]] ([[User talk:Lkitrossky|talk]]) 13:00, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
*The question that I ask myself when writing an article is: Which source is the major source?  Which source am I hanging the structure of this biography off?  It's not those three 1-sentence mentions and a picture caption from the ''NYT'' in your case.  A big clue would be lots of ^ ^ ^ ^ backlinks from the citation of that source.  But no citation in your draft has more than one such.  What are the 1, or even 2 or more, broad-coverage biographical sources?  Who are their identifiable authors?  And what are their identifiable credentials and independence of the article subject?  Show that &mdash; make it ''easy for the reviewer to find'' &mdash; and you'll get a lot further. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 15:08, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:Lkitrossky|lkitross]], what my uncle is pointing out is precisely what I think also: those links to the NYT, they provide mentions, no more than that. If no reliable secondary source has seen fit to publish anything of substance on a person, why should that person be considered notable? What I saw was a draft that tried its hardest to construct notability out of a plethora of mentions, some from more reliable sources than others. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:22, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
**Better sources added: [[The Guardian]], [[Modern Drummer]], [[Jazz Times]], Glide Magazine,  Jazz Trail. Does it help? Need more? [[User:Lkitrossky|lkitross]] ([[User talk:Lkitrossky|talk]]) 06:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

==Reconcile [[Filippo Surace]] and [[Draft:Filippo_Surace]]==
Hi Drmies, I'm seeking your guidance to reconcile [[Filippo Surace]] and [[Draft:Filippo_Surace]], which are effectively the same page. 

On 18 July 2023 I declined to publish the draft (it has reasonable potential but required significant cleanup, which I explained in my comment). Today the author of the draft [[User:Intrisit|Intrisit]] posted on [[User_talk:Cabrils#Article/Draft_confusion|my Talk page]] alerting me that the page [[Filippo Surace]] was in mainspace, and was effectively the same content as the draft (with the same problematic issues). I was inclined to move the page to draftspace but can't because the draft is still in existence.

Could you please advise a course of action, whenever you have a moment? With appreciation, [[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]] ([[User talk:Cabrils|talk]]) 22:58, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* It's the same with [[Draft:Isaac Richard III]] and [[Isaac Richard III]].  In both cases another account has come along, made exactly 10 mostly reverted fairly useless edits to get autoconfirmed, and just copied the draft into article space.  {{user|Stephanie Emuvoke Ifeyinwa}} and {{user|Hadria Eleonora Alison}} in place of {{user|Isaacrichard}} and {{user|Elisabettam91}}. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
**Quite the little collection growing of accounts making trivial and largely useless wikilinks (like "[[writer]]s and "[[fiction]]al" and "[[vehicle]]s") to get autoconfirmed, here.  {{user|Shibliadnani}} and {{user|Zarafshanbatool}} have joined the party. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 10:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
***I bet CU would reveal one of two things: either a broad range of IPs with tons and tons of editors from West Africa, or a broad range of IPs with tons and tons of editors from from Pakistan or Bangladesh. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
****It's definitely an editing farm of some sort. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 20:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]], the thing is up for deletion--let's wait and see. If it's kept we could move it into draft space and merge it, maybe, though that would be a bit unusual. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:06, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
**Great plan, thanks very much. [[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]] ([[User talk:Cabrils|talk]]) 22:20, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
***[[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]], I forgot, after all those blocks, to delete the draft. It's gone now. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:03, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
***:Thanks very much, this has been instructive for me, which I appreciate. [[User:Cabrils|Cabrils]] ([[User talk:Cabrils|talk]]) 23:27, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
*OK, I kind of lost track of how many blocks I placed; the links above, and I haven't checked all of them, led me to three different sock farms: [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Abbasshaikh124]], [[User:Originalmichael]], and [[User:Infomavros]]/[[User:Jhenry1999]]/[[User:Isaacrichard]]. I don't think I'm done yet, but I may be done, haha. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:27, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

=== Doktoro needs a soothing subject ===
[[File:Location of Cold Fork post office 1914.jpg|thumb|right|[[User:Jengod|Jengod]] has found a soothing bland picture of a government post office application form to calm you down, Doktoro.  Relax and enjoy paperwork!]]
Oh no, Doktoro!  This won't do!  I don't come to [[User talk:Drmies|AFC]] to get you to look at your socks.  Quick!  We must find some not-your-socks thing.<p>Alas!  There's not much for you at {{On AFD|El Camino, California}} or {{On AFD|Red Bank, California}} or {{On AFD|Cold Fork, California}}, as they are no longer bad-GNIS-import "unincorporated community" dren.  The only thing that comes immediately to hand is {{On AFD|Atlantic (Semitic) languages}}, which unfortunately would require a German Professor, and we don't even have any ''English'' Professors on this page.<p>Perhaps some soothing furniture topics?  &#9786;<p>(Just do not ask why Californians get their own special cold forks.  Just do not.)<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 03:36, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*Oh Uncle G I wish I had a bunch of time on my hands--I can't even get to the gwerz. I'm reworking a biography of Clifford L., and it's not even for Wikipedia... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:19, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
**My Bing search for '''"Clifford L." "K-Pop"''' has unfortunately not turned up anything, Doktoro.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 18:15, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*I don't know whether it will be as soothing as [[User:Jengod|Jengod]]'s government forms, but I might start off a little brown box about the Lesher Dollar (Did we know about it, or even know that we didn't know about it?  [[Lesher Dollar|no!]] [[Lesher dollar|no!]] [[Lesher Referendum Dollar|no!]] [[Lesher referendum dollar|no!]] [[Joseph Lesher|no!]]) for you, Doktoro, which I found by chance as a result of {{On AFD|Lassen Lodge, California}}.  It turns out that there's an Arcadia Publishing book on the things written by two ex-presidents, you see.<p>At least one other encyclopaedia could have already asked:<p>'''Did you know &hellip;''' that the [[Lesher Dollar]] had the support of governor [[Davis H. Waite]] and senator [[Edward Oliver Wolcott]]?<sup>{{harv|Snodgrass|2019|p=200}}</sup><p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 10:19, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
** {{cite web|url=https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_949143|title=One (1) 1.25 Lesher dollar reproduction|publisher=[[National Museum of American History]]}}
** {{cite book|title=Forgotten Colorado Silver: Joseph Lesher’s Defiant Coins|author1-first=Robert D.|author1-last=Leonard Jr|author2-first=Ken|author2-last=Hallenbeck|author2-link=Kenneth L. Hallenbeck|author3-first=Adna G.|author3-last=Wilde Jr|publisher=Arcadia Publishing|year=2017|isbn=9781467135252}}
** {{cite journal|journal=American Journal of Numismatics|volume=51|year=1917|title=PRIVATE SILVER COINS ISSUED IN THE UNITED STATES: The Leshers or Referendum Pieces|author1-first=Farran|author1-last=Zerbe|author1-link=Farran Zerbe|pages=153&ndash;174|jstor=43594139}}
** {{cite newspaper|newspaper=The New York Times|title=HISTORIC LESHER HOUSE RECALLS A BYGONE ERA|author1-first=Ed|author1-last=Reiter|date=1985-06-16|page=35|url=https://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/16/arts/numismatics-historic-lesher-house-recalls-a-bygone-era.html}}
** {{cite book|title=So-called Dollars: An Illustrated Standard Catalog|author1-first=Harold E.|author1-last=Hibler|author2-first=Charles V.|author2-last=Kappen|publisher=Coin &amp; Currency Institute|year=2008|isbn=9780871841025|edition=2nd|chapter=Lesher or Referendum Dollars 1900&ndash;1901|pages=156&ndash;158}}
** {{cite encyclopaedia|encyclopaedia=Coins and Currency: An Historical Encyclopedia|edition=2nd|author1-first=Mary Ellen|author1-last=Snodgrass|author1-link=Mary Ellen Snodgrass|publisher=McFarland|year=2019|isbn=9781476677965|article=Lesher, Joseph}}

== Administrators' newsletter – November 2023 ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter|News and updates for administrators]] from the past month (October 2023).

[[File:ANEWSicon.png|right|150px]]

[[File:Wikipedia Administrator.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Administrator changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-add.svg|20px|alt=added|Added]] [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/0xDeadbeef|0xDeadbeef]]
:[[File:Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg|20px|alt=readded|Readded]] [[Special:PermanentLink/1180981757#Resysop request (Tamzin)|Tamzin]]
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] [[Special:PermanentLink/1178946582#Remove admin bit please (Dennis Brown)|Dennis Brown]]

[[File:Wikipedia Interface administrator.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Interface administrator changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-add.svg|20px|alt=added|Added]] [[Special:PermanentLink/1179452714#Interface admin request (Pppery)|Pppery]]
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{hlist|class=inline
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1182816986#Inactive interface administrators 2023-10-28|Ragesoss]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1182799651#Please_remove_interface_admin_(TheresNoTime)|TheresNoTime]]
}}

[[File:Green check.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Guideline and policy news'''

[[File:Octicons-tools.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Technical news'''
* The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Community_configuration_2.0|edit MediaWiki configuration directly]]. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A [[phab:T349757|technical RfC is running]] until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
* There is [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Graph/Plans#Roadmap|a proposed plan]] for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal [[mw:Extension_talk:Graph/Plans#c-PPelberg_(WMF)-20231020221600-Update:_20_October|is requested]].

[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Arbitration'''
* Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023|in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections]].
* {{noping|Xaosflux}}, {{noping|RoySmith}} and {{noping|Cyberpower678}} have been appointed to the [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023/Electoral Commission|Electoral Commission]] for the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023|2023 Arbitration Committee Elections]]. {{noping|BusterD}} is the reserve commissioner.
* Following [[Special:PermanentLink/1179537633#Arbitration motion regarding the Prem Rawat case|a motion]], the contentious topic designation of ''Prem Rawat'' has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
* Following [[Special:PermanentLink/1180835750#Arbitration motion regarding Unused Contentious Topics|several motions]], multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the ''Editor conduct in e-cigs articles'', ''Liancourt Rocks'', ''Longevity'', ''Medicine'', ''September 11 conspiracy theories'', and ''Shakespeare authorship question'' cases.
* Following [[Special:PermanentLink/1180835750#Arbitration motion regarding Unused Contentious Topics|a motion]], remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the ''Macedonia 2'' case have been rescinded.
* Following [[Special:PermanentLink/1180835750#Arbitration motion regarding Unused Contentious Topics|a motion]], remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the ''The Troubles'' case has been amended.
* An arbitration case named ''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Industrial agriculture|Industrial agriculture]]'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.

[[File:Info Simple bw.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Miscellaneous'''
* The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/November 2023 Backlog Drive|'''Articles for Creation backlog drive''']] is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|the Gadgets settings]]. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/November 2023 Backlog Drive/Participants|'''Sign up here to participate!''']]
----
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* [[Wikipedia talk:Administrators' newsletter|Discuss this newsletter]]
* [[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter/Subscribe|Subscribe]]
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== [[Trip Gabriel]] ==

Hi doc, hoping you could advise here. This article is basically unsourced, with pretty much all the refs linking to primary sources. Seems like a bunch of OR, possibly all put up by the page's subject or someone close to them.
Does this person even satisfy any notability guideline? Should we nominate for afd, overtemplate it, or roll up our sleeves and do the work the original coi editor didn't bother to do?
Asking you because you've assisted me in the past, not because I think this subject has any intetest for you. Thanks [[User:Hydromania|Hydromania]] ([[User talk:Hydromania|talk]]) 06:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
*Doktoro much prefers furniture and K-Pop.  I can dig up the diffs.  But {{user|Hgabriel764}} being the original author claiming that Helen Gabriel is the subject's mother does raise some red flags.  As does the possibility of {{user|ABEditing}} being some sort of {{plainlink|https://www.upwork.com/en-gb/agencies/425285900185178112/|paid editing firm from Bangladesh}}. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 10:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
**Thanks. I see someone deprodded it. So [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Trip_Gabriel|AfD it is]]. It's possible the subject satisfies a notability requirement, but as-is, the article is useless. I also don't like rewarding COI editors by doing their work for them. [[User:Hydromania|Hydromania]] ([[User talk:Hydromania|talk]]) 04:04, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

== Spam wonderful spam ==

re your comment on the Vera Clinic Afd page.... Sorry to spoil you fun and all that (there are advertising supplements that I read for the toe-curling awfulness or their copy) but some people (I'm one) get their kicks copyediting these collections of snouts and entrails... can't keep everybody happy![[User:TheLongTone|TheLongTone]] ([[User talk:TheLongTone|talk]]) 15:34, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

== May I bend your ear, please? ==

[[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Krakhesh]] is disturbing, mainly because K is a long standing editor, and appears to be a university professor who passes NPROF. I actually do not want to be correct in this report, but I feel I am.  
I'm content to be told that there are loads of other SPIs waiting, and to sit quietly and wait. 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 18:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
*Yes, there are loads of other SPIs waiting, so sit quietly and wait. ;) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:21, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
**~sits on hands and whistles tunelessly~{{pb}}Are we getting more SPI reports, or is there a shortage of detail oriented people handling the work?{{pb}}Hope that whistling isn't getting on your nerves <big>😈</big> 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 18:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
***You and your coding. I don't know, Tim. It ''is'' a lot of work, and the clerking takes a lot of time too. The bottleneck is probably figuring out which cases are quick and easy (like this one) and which ones require a lot of work. Some of the ones that need CU are a lot of work, especially if the socks are really smart, or there's lots of ranges, or there's a lot of socks. Other SPIs, the ones that need a behavior check, well they're probably the hardest ones. [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ChildofMidnight|This one]], that was hard. Anyway, there's a couple of bottleneck opportunities, and only so many of us, and most of the clerks probably hate me because I don't really know how to do all the paperwork, and I kind of fly in and out, like this time. ;) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
****Crikey! I think your example of a hard case reinforces my thinking.  Every time I am borderline about considering whether I might just be competent enough to volunteer to clerk I see that I am not. I don't have the level of detail orientation that the role requires. I'm not saying that in order to be persuaded. I'm saying it because it is clear to me. These are roles to be done well, and one has to know one's limitations. 🇺🇦&nbsp;[[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk&nbsp;to&nbsp;me</small></sup>]]&nbsp;🇺🇦 08:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Principles of art#Addressing BLAR concerns]] ==
In case you wanted to answer questions or clarify comments before work actually starts in earnest, you may want to follow up at [[Talk:Principles of art#Addressing BLAR concerns]]. I also replied to your warning on my talk page, but also wanted to make clear that I did not write the content you were complaining about, and was instead trying to set up the page for addressing your concerns (if I understood them correctly). —[[User:AySz88|AySz88]][[Special:Contributions/AySz88|\]][[User talk:AySz88|<font color="#FF9966">^</font><font color="#FF6633">-</font><font color="#FF3300">^</font>]] 08:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*Thank you. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*It was some utterly rubbish sourcing, and I cannot fault [[User:Drmies|Doktoro]] for being doubtful.  I had a look around out of interest and I can turn up some better sourcing, but all of the better sourcing that I've found (a) calls this principles of ''design'', (b) discusses it inextricably with the elements of art, in a way that the [[Visual design elements and principles]] article does, and (c) discusses this in the context of ''teaching art''.  So personally I'm on the side of the redirect, and either a redirect or merger of [[elements of art]] too, in fact.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 13:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dhak_(instrument)&diff=prev&oldid=1184532538 this revert]. I'm quite sure that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Shemsher2.o this new user] is a sock of [[User:Bikrampuri]]. SPI case page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Bikrampuri here]. Apart from new IDs, they typically use Japanese IPs for their edits. Thanks again {{p}}. - [[User:Fylindfotberserk|Fylindfotberserk]] ([[User talk:Fylindfotberserk|talk]]) 09:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*Oh really? Well that sucks--I thought I had a nice and helpful conversation with a new editor... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:55, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*OK, next one... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

== {{UTRS|81001}} ==

looks like a WikiEd student. Grant IPBE? [[User:Deepfriedokra|--  Deepfriedokra]] ([[User talk:Deepfriedokra|talk]]) 11:38, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*Hmm yeah but I don't see where I come in, or where the hardblock is. I blocked one of the ranges, sure--but I think the best thing to do is ping [[User:Blablubbs]], who blocked another, and is probably smarter than me. Blablubbs, if you have a look, look at the notes in the log by Bradv and ST47. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
**I can't see anything that would prevent them from editing while logged in. --[[User:Blablubbs|Blablubbs]] ([[User talk:Blablubbs|talk]]) 14:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
***Thanks y'all. That's what Yamla said when I was at the Park. [[User:Deepfriedokra|--  Deepfriedokra]] ([[User talk:Deepfriedokra|talk]]) 15:33, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
****Right, {{U|Blablubbs}}--I forgot to mention that I didn't see any hardblocks anywhere. It came to me in the shower but then we had biscuits and gravy, so I totally forgot. One more thing: I should congratulate you on the picture of the baby badgers. That's adorable and beautiful. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

== [[User:Bayreuth0115]] ==

You may remember this user whom you blocked earlier in the week for continued disruptive editing on the figure skating articles. I believe they have been editing while logged out with a roaming variety of IP accounts that all geolocate to Berlin, Germany. The articles hit hardest have been:
*[[2022–23 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating]]
*[[2023–24 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating]]
*[[2022–23 ISU Challenger Series]]
*[[2023–24 ISU Challenger Series]]
*[[2023–24 figure skating season]]
*[[2022–23 figure skating season]]
*[[2023–24 ISU Junior Grand Prix]]

If it's not possible to block the IPs because they keep changing, would it be possible to protect these articles to prevent further disruption? Thank you! [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 22:13, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*Well, semi-protection is one thing and I saw your request for the one article. On the other hand, the IP you noticed, I just blocked them: they are typical, so to speak. So, with further disruption also comes the opportunity for us to place rangeblocks. A thing you can do is make a subpage and simply list the disruptive IPs, and then we can act on that. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:45, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
**I had sent the two articles to RPP, but then thought it might be easier just to list all of the affected articles in one place rather than send them through separately. I will let you know if (hell, when) there’s a recurrence. Also, will you be extending Bayreuth’s block a little longer for likely sockpuppetry? [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 01:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
***I just dropped a block on a range, and extended the block to indefinite. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
****@[[User:Drmies|Drmies]], it didn’t take too long: 79.210.163.173 is back at it. [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 14:31, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*****Gotcha. Thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
******@[[User:Drmies|Drmies]] And again... 62.214.191.67; 84.164.246.137 & 185.238.219.76 . [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 19:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*******Admire their persistence! This won't go on forever. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:30, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
********Thankfully, I'm stubborn. [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 20:45, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
****:And again: 185.238.219.117 & 84.142.223.59 [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 00:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
******Have you ever been described as someone’s “Dutch sugar daddy” before? 😂😂😂 [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 13:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
******And again: 80.142.10.168 [[User:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''Bgsu98'''</span>]] [[User talk:Bgsu98|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 13:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
*******I made something: [[User:Bgsu98/Bayreuth0115]]. Feel free to drop everything in there, including the ones we noted before--this will help with finding the proper ranges. [[User:Ohnoitsjamie]], thanks for the block. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

== [[Reading]] ==

Hello! Why did you revert a number of edits including good edits in the [[Reading]] article? Do you have objections against all the edits you reverted, or against just one particular edit? Could you please specify what was wrong so we know in the future? One of the edits is a paragraph added; other edits are technical, like fixing links, duplicate reference declarations, and minor grammar errors. Are all the edits bad? Could you please let us know the details? Thank you in advance! --[[User:Maxim Masiutin|Maxim Masiutin]] ([[User talk:Maxim Masiutin|talk]]) 12:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
*Gotcha--it was the edits by Class of 2027. Thanks. (Who is "we"?) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
**I read that, too.  [[Special:Diff/1184301842]].  I think that we can squarely lay that at the feet of {{user|Class of 2027}} alone, which has a familiar capitalization style for some misleading edit summaries.  &#9786;  [[User:Maxim Masiutin|Maxim Masiutin]], I suspect that you can relax, this is nothing to do with you.  &#9786;  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 14:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
**Me and other wikipedians who might edit this article. [[User:Maxim Masiutin|Maxim Masiutin]] ([[User talk:Maxim Masiutin|talk]]) 14:32, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
**It is interesting to see that [[User:Contents6762|Contents6762]] suspects LLM-generated content.  [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] has dealt with some of the other edits.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 14:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
***@[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] what's wrong with the LLM-generated content? I read an essay at [[Wikipedia:LLM]] that is is not outright discouraged, and careful use is OK. [[User:Maxim Masiutin|Maxim Masiutin]] ([[User talk:Maxim Masiutin|talk]]) 14:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
****I was going to give you an answer based upon putting that question into Bing's LLM, but it immediately started riffing wacky themes and variations based upon that very page.  &#9786; [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 12:46, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
*****I'm getting a lesson in ChatGPT from my kids this week. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
***I ran a quick check since there's really no way a brand-new editor gets so much right, but it showed nothing. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:43, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

== Sangita Swechcha ==

COI are not paid contributions :) [[User:DIVINE|<b style="color:#29F">DI</b><b style="color:red">V</b>]][[User talk:DIVINE|<b style="color:#080">I</b><b style="color:#808">N</b>]][[Special:Contribs/DIVINE|<b style="color:#FA0">E</b>]] 14:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DIVINE&diff=prev&oldid=1185040117 "This involvement was WP:PAID"]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
*:That was another page not this one. I have clearly mentioned on my userpage and also mentioned there that I haven’t taken any financial gain via this page. [[User:DIVINE|<b style="color:#29F">DI</b><b style="color:red">V</b>]][[User talk:DIVINE|<b style="color:#080">I</b><b style="color:#808">N</b>]][[Special:Contribs/DIVINE|<b style="color:#FA0">E</b>]] 05:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

== Ellie Moon ==

Heya Drmies, saw you editing [[Ellie Moon]]. Have you considered running a CU on the recent arrival? The similarity to the editor I just blocked is hard to ignore, but alas I no longer have the CU bit to do it myself. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 21:24, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*Yes, I did, and I ran it, but there was nothing there. I didn't run the other one for comparison, but both of them are so inept at editing (and at writing/scholarship) that it's not really worth the time. You and Valereee have the patience of saints. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*Oh you blocked that IPv6: thank you. That was getting irritating; it took me quite a while to make something out of that weirdly-phrased edit with the citation. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:30, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
**Yeah, that was my bad for forgetting to block the /64 in the first place. Thanks for the CU assist. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 21:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
***It's a good thing you semi-protected that article; I think there's coordinated editing going on. CU geolocates the two accounts very close to each other, but not in the same range. They could still be the same person of course. I think we owe it to Moon to make that article as good as it can be--I've also been pruning [[Jian Ghomeshi|the other article]] just a bit, and that article is painful to read. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:16, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

On this subject, Lurkers:
Note [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#involved?]].
Also note that on [[Talk:Ellie Moon]] and [[Talk:Adult Adoption]], [[User:Valereee|Valereee]] is shouldering the burden largely alone of answering {{user|AMCream}} who [[Special:Diff/1184922489|is asking what happened]] to the articles written by {{user|Alinamackie}}.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 07:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

== Tom Rhea ==

I've just been reading about this chap. (he's a pioneer of synthesiser design; of course I'm going to end up reading about him!) and the source in question describes him as "a professor at [[Berklee College of Music]]", so I thought, aha, he meets [[WP:PROF]] then, let me go and write an article. But I'm struggling to find an actual source that confirms what he does and at what position. The best I can find from an obvious search is [https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/453655 this], which is obviously no good as a source, and [https://www.aes.org/events/137/presenters/?ID=2618 this one] which just says he "teaches" there without qualifying his position.

In the past, I would have asked DGG for his advice; since he's gone, I don't really have a "go to" admin to ask for articles on academics. Any ideas?

(Note, the [[Tom Rhea]] we currently have is a redirect to [[Thomas Rhea]], a completely unrelated person) [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

:Still not much better as a source, but [https://www.facebook.com/110812402289330/photos/a.117119261658644/1313742531996305/ this] facebook post from the Berklee department says he retired in 2017. Also, not RS, but [https://www.raymondscott.net/features/tom-rhea/ this] says he was Associate Professor, Electronic Production and Design Department, at Berklee College of Music. An alternative "go to" to DGG on matters of [[WP:PROF]] could be {{noping|David Eppstein}}. [[User:Smartse|SmartSE]] ([[User talk:Smartse|talk]]) 15:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::I agree; David is good. The living David, that is. I miss DGG very much. For notability things and h-scores and all that I often ask {{U|Randykitty}}. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:51, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::I tend to look at such things with a couple of things in mind. Is the article promotional, is the subject alive? Those problems aren't here for this: there are no BLP/promotional concerns here. Then, the AfD perspective. Would I discredit a source in an AfD discussion? I would accept [https://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/tom-rhea this] (he talks about how Mahavishnu was an eye opener for him!) and the other things on that page. But we should also accept [https://www.berklee.edu/berklee-today/spring-2006/featured/expanded-circuitry this]--I have no problem with it, and it provides fodder for a number of articles. And [https://www.raymondscott.net/features/tom-rhea/ this]--why not? We should cite [https://www.raymondscott.net/rhea-article-1981/ this] in the article on [[Raymond Scott]], and see how we can establish that Rhea was a columnist/contributor to [[Keyboard (magazine)|''Contemporary Keyboard'']] ([https://cdm.link/2017/01/demise-keyboard-magazine-42-years/ this] is really interesting for expanding that article). [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:26, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::His columns in that magazine are worth noting, and one of the magazine's main attractions: [https://doi.org/10.2307/832849 "A combination of serious pop music related to the keyboard, including electronic keyboards. Mainly of interest for columns by Robert Moog, Roger Powell, Rhea, and David Burge]. Rhea cited as [https://doi.org/10.2307/1513299 "a historian of electronic musical instruments"]. More proof of his notability as a scholar: [https://doi.org/10.2307/1513225 "Studies by scholars such as Tom Rhea have shown that, of the large number of electric instruments built in the first half of the century, few are remembered."] Ha, all we have to do is find his books and journal articles. I have a feeling that some of these nuggets might appear here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::[https://books.google.com/books?id=IQrOFoWL0T4C&pg=PT1 Hal Leonard] published a few books with him as a contributor, books published [https://books.google.com/books?id=tkdkLEH2sGQC&pg=PT1 in collaboration with ''Keyboard Magazine'']. ''Synthesizers and Computers'' is also cited in a [https://moogfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/1983-Moog-Music-Software-Catalog.pdf 1983 catalog from Moog]. I'd love to find a list of his article publications. Maybe there's some in [https://books.google.com/books?id=8EOeAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT145 this book?] 18 hits for his name but I don't have access to it. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

== Assistance requested ==

[[User:Drmies]], I'm so sorry to bother you, but [[User:JosephWC]] is up to his usual nonsense again. Not only is he still adding trivial non-appearances without providing valid reasons, such as with the [[Vulture (Marvel Comics)|Vulture]] and [[Zzzax]], he is also starting [[WP:EDITWAR]]s with and mounting [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]] on me and [[Special:Contributions/8.37.179.254|8.37.179.254]], refusing to be [[WP:CIVIL]] about any of this, and removing citation requests without actually replacing them with a reliable source. Plus, he removed your block information from his talk page, also for no reason. I've already requested [[User:Materialscientist]]'s help in this matter and, though I said I didn't want to bother you Drmies in that message, Joseph's shenanigans is getting out of hand. Please reply when you can. [[User:Blazewing16|Blazewing16]] ([[User talk:Blazewing16|talk]]) 01:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

:Personal attacks, what a load of bull. Removing a block detail is my call on MY PAGE, not yours to make. Is it?  [[User:JosephWC|JosephWC]] ([[User talk:JosephWC|talk]]) 04:16, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this feud not stem from a silly edit war over [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doug_Walker_(musician)&diff=next&oldid=1185186296 whether or not to wikilink the term "SMS"]. If it is, my views to you are - it doesn't really matter one way or the other. Please go and edit something else.  Or is it because [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baron_Mordo&diff=next&oldid=1185480599 Blazewing16 reverted your edit] because it was "Undoing the addition of unsourced material and frankly unnecessary material." In which case my views are - he's right, we don't need that much excessive detail, ''especially'' when no source was provided to validate its importance. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 10:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
:::{{U|Ritchie333}}, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had enough of this editor's shenanigans. Hope you're doing well, my friend. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::::I think this is out in the open on-wiki anyway - I have moved in with the woman I plan on marrying, and couldn't be happier. How's you? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
== Bel ==
Doktoro, if you feel like travelling, you could go to Louisiana &mdash; only a short hop, I am sure &mdash; and tell all of the Louises &mdash; You might have to shout a bit to be heard all of the way across the bayous. &mdash; that we are missing [[J. A. Bel]]/[[John Albert Bel]] and his turn of the 20th century lumber business, and later Estate and Oil companies; and that it's only thanks to {{On AFD|Bel, Louisiana}} that we now know that [[Special:Whatlinkshere/J. A. Bel|we didn't even know]] that we didn't know this.
I can see the existence of biographies and later histories of the companies after his death, but they are not accessible to me.
The Louises will no doubt have better access.
I wonder whether any of your Lurkers are Louisianianians.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 11:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

==LTA IP==
Hello Drmies. A while back you briefly dealt with [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/93.136.125.178 this Croatian long-term abusive IP with a dynamic range]. They follow, harass and insult editors they perceive to be Serbian.

They just posted a comment on an RfC [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Banjska_attack&diff=prev&oldid=1185788973 attacking me personally]. Can their edit be reverted? Also unsure if revdel applies here as well. Thank you. --[[User:Griboski|Griboski]] ([[User talk:Griboski|talk]]) 20:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
*If someone insults you that can be deleted--you can do it yourself. Or you can simply remove it, or redact it. It's not rev-deletable, IMO. I am sorry that you get yelled at like that. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:44, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

== Openly admitted sock master ==

See [[User talk:Jeremiah Gottwald]]. "I have a gazillion fake accounts." -[[User:Ad Orientem|Ad Orientem]] ([[User talk:Ad Orientem|talk]]) 17:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
*Well that makes two of us! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
*Oh, right, [[Antinatalism]]--that's weird. I see that {{U|Bradv}} is already on the case--that's a shame, cause I could use the bonus check. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
**It really needs more CUs to count to a gazillion.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 21:29, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
***That article really needs a deeper dive. I just removed a ton of highly questionable material--that most recent sock may not have been the first NOTHERE editor. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:31, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
****If it's not, they sure went through a lot of effort to look just like it :P (I have not used my magic goggles) -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 21:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
**Don't worry, I have been reliably informed by the [[User talk:Luiz Alvarez223|21st century's greatest philosopher]] that there will be more than enough for both of us to meet quota. – [[User talk:Bradv|<span style="color:#333">'''brad''v'''''</span>]] 22:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
***And they just have to be a jerk about it? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
***:Sounds like a real prince. -[[User:Ad Orientem|Ad Orientem]] ([[User talk:Ad Orientem|talk]]) 01:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
**Definitely an odd topic. But having blocked the sock and protected the page my job as the on-duty janitor is done. Happily handing the rest of this off to the plumbing team. -[[User:Ad Orientem|Ad Orientem]] ([[User talk:Ad Orientem|talk]]) 22:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

== Brackets ==
I've tried to find a happy medium at [[Bracket]], Doktoro.
I've suggested a further one for the massive Unicode table at [[Talk:Bracket]].
<p>
But I must get back to being [[#up the Creeks without an English professor]] now.
I've been putting off [[North Fork Kentucky River]] because I suspect that it will be even more Troublesome than the Troublesome things.
And I haven't even found the Troublesome things in the other counties yet.
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 05:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
*Oh there are plenty, including in my home country. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving, Uncle. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:40, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

== That was… ==

…the second most exciting Iron Bowl to watch. Grats.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 00:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
*With a much better ending than that other game. Thanks. I appreciate the note: hell of a game. I'm sure you saw my video on Facebook: I knew Milroe could get it on a fourth down. :) Tell your dad I said hi. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

== My talk page ==

Who is the "we" that decides what can and can't stand? I prefer to keep my talk page intact. There was no threat, BLP violation, or personal attack on anyone other than myself. --[[User:Onorem|Onorem]] ([[User talk:Onorem|talk]]) 19:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
:Meh. I do now see that GuardianH was also mentioned. I still think it's questionable at best. --[[User:Onorem|Onorem]] ([[User talk:Onorem|talk]]) 19:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
::I'm not going to let those kinds of comments stand--not in Wikipedia, on pages that anyone can see. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:44, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

== Say… ==

Why do people often ping you, in particular, for antivandal work. Obviously your talk page is protected, but plenty of other highly active admins have lower combined talkpage+ping counts than you. [[User:Mach61|Mach61]] ([[User talk:Mach61|talk]]) 00:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
*Oh, I don't know. I don't know how to look at ping counts, BTW, but I'd like to think that [[Wikipedia:ANI 2.0]] delivers decent customer service. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
*Some of us try to help Doktoro away from all of the nasty vandals and looking at xyr socks.  Although then xe wanders off [[#Bowls|bowling]] or [[#Beavers|clubbing]] or [[#Brackets|bracketing]].  And the Gwerz and the [[#Bleats|Goat]] never get a chance. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:14, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

== November music ==
{{User QAIbox
| title = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Places and songs 2023#4 Nov|November songs]]
| image = Bittersweet, Mohegan Lake.jpg
| image_upright = 
| bold = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Top|story]] · [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Music|music]]
}}
[[Hevenu shalom aleichem]] is my [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#2 Nov|story today]]. -- [[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 21:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

I proudly remember having sung in an oratorio premiere seven years ago [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#6 Nov|OTD]]. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 16:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

More, if you like: today I have [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#7 Nov|three items on the Main page]], almost too much of a good thing! Bach's [[O Ewigkeit, du Donnerwort, BWV 60|amazing cantata]] with the unusual scale, first performed 300 years ago OTD, the [[Lea Ackermann|nun for the prostitutes]], and Schumann's [[Myrthen|wedding gift]] for Clara. Also first day of vacation pics uploaded. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 17:58, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#24 Nov|What a story]]! --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 21:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#27 Nov|Today]]: in memoriam [[Jerome Kohl]] who said ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl/Archive 6#In Freundschaft|In Freundschaft]]): "and I hope that they have met again in the beyond and are making joyous music together" --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 15:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 59 ==

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<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">'''The Wikipedia Library''': ''Books & Bytes''</span><br />
Issue 59, September – October 2023
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* Spotlight: Introducing a repository of anti-disinformation projects
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<big>'''[[:m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/September-October_2023|Read the full newsletter]]'''</big>
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== KICC help ==

Thank you for the assist on [[Kenyatta International Convention Centre]]! I'm not sure why it got the sudden influx of attention, but I put in a RPP -- [[User:Macaddct1984|MacAddct1984]] <sup>([[User talk:Macaddct1984|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Macaddct1984|contribs]])</sup> 14:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
*Sure thing--I already protected it so you can remove that request. Looks like a local, politicized 4chan-style attack. Thank you too. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
=={{noping|Chemboy510}}==
Unconvincing, IMO. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 12:42, 1 December 2023 (UTC).
*Yup. Hey, the motherland had snow, at least a dusting of it. Are you having to ride your all-hoof drive reindeer to work yet? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:44, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

== Requesting action on two matters ==
In this [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Kosovo Security Force|this thread on ANI]], two accounts are confirming themselves as socks and a third is accusing editors of being {{tq|ethnic haters}} and {{tq|serbian}} (lol). Would you mind intervening at least on those three accounts, as I've been trying to get admin help on this for two weeks now. Additionally, requesting a range block from the page [[Raphael of Brooklyn]] from IP range  2003:c0:6f00::/43 due to persistent block evasion by {{noping|Akhshartag}}. Any admin TPSs are encouraged to also respond. I've directly asked another admin but have not received a response. Best, ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 14:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

== Britannica ==
* {{article|History of wood carving}}
* {{On AFD|History of wood carving}}
All of that said, I now feel encouraged to get a sentence into a future article that begins with "Of furniture," especially for you, Doktoro. &#9786;
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 15:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
*Well it doesn't have to be a Wikipedia article! You can always write me an ode and get it published in Harper's, which Mrs. Drmies just got us a subscription to. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
**It could be a Wikipedia article sooner than I thought, Doktoro.  {{harvnb|Ellenwood|2022|p=16}} mentions furniture. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 19:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
*** {{cite book|chapter=A History of Woodcarving|title=The Complete Book of Woodcarving|author1-first=Everett|author1-last=Ellenwood|publisher=Fox Chapel Publishing|year=2022|isbn=9781637410875}}
*I just looked over the AfD: my my. I didn't advocate deletion either, and I vehemently disagree that redirecting is a backdoor kind of deletion: that's a ridiculous conclusion. Redirects are by definition valid search terms, and thus possibly valid articles, and that's how many redirects end up. You've proven that article improvement can start in all kinds of ways, and by the way, I really appreciate your critique of the article, here and on Brittanica. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

== Newspapers.com ==

Are you sure you don't have access to [https://www-newspapers-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/image/26782881/ that link]? You should be able to just click the "login via Wikipedia" button and sign in with your usual Wikipedia credentials. Newspapers.com is one of the best parts of the [[WP:TWL|Wikipedia Library]]: it's an extremely useful source for all sorts of articles about nineteenth- and twentieth-century American topics. And all that for free! Hope you're doing well. [[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]] ([[User talk:Extraordinary Writ|talk]]) 04:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:Extraordinary Writ|Extraordinary Writ]], well, the miracles haven't left the world yet (sounds better in Dutch): I click again, and there it is. Yes, I'm fine, thanks--wrapping up a semester, starting a new one, and waiting on a bunch of archival material from the Johns Hopkins collection on Clifford Lanier. I hope you're well too. I don't know if I ever congratulated you on your user name--if I haven't, congrats! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

== Just a quick note ==

I have fixed your closure of that AN thread. You accidentally wikilinked abot rather than used the template. Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes. Have a nice day! <span style="border: 1px solid #0000FF ;color:#0000FF; padding:0px 7px;border-radius:10px"><b>[[User:NightWolf1223|NW1223]]&lt;[[User talk:NightWolf1223|Howl at me]]&bull;[[Special:Contributions/NightWolf1223|My hunts]]&gt;</b></span> 14:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

== A new sockpuppet? ==

[[:User:Yekled]] has appeared and seems to be jumping firmly into the turf of [[:Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Tony Beach Enthusiast]]. Any suggestions for how this should be pursued. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] ([[User talk:Alansohn|talk]]) 00:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
:While waiting for Drmies, I've blocked the new account as obvious. {{U|Alansohn}}, nothing wrong with coming here, but another option would have been to file a report at [[WP:SPI]].--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
::{{U|Bbb23}}, I would've and should've, but thanks for taking direct action. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] ([[User talk:Alansohn|talk]]) 00:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
:::[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]], thanks for revoking TPA also. It's pretty unbelievable, right, what we are asked to believe. One wonders if that person lies like that to everyone. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]], I appreciate you coming by. I know you and I haven't always agreed on everything, but I am always happy to help you--and thank you for your many contributions to our beautiful project. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
::::I used the word "misrepresentations" on the user's Talk page - I initially wrote "lies" and then changed it to the euphemism. Sometimes I get in trouble if I'm too blunt.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 15:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::Ha, I hear you. I ran into a couple of cases of "miss-representation" this morning. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:20, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

== Unblock request ==

Hello Drmies, just letting you know, [[Special:AbuseLog/36522554|this]] popped up on the filter log, happy editing & cheers! [[User:Jerium|Jerium]] ([[User talk:Jerium|talk]]) 00:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
*Thanks--interesting. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
**Unrelated to that but because of continued trolling in UTRS, I extended the block on the IP address range involved. Even without CU data, I know exactly who this is and en.wikipedia is far, far, far better off without them. --[[User:Yamla|Yamla]] ([[User talk:Yamla|talk]]) 01:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
***Thanks {{U|Yamla}}. So now it's clear where that shit came from, and I have something I can use. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
***[[User:Yamla|Yamla]], please drop me a line and tell me what you know. I reported to ArbCom already. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Will email shortly. --[[User:Yamla|Yamla]] ([[User talk:Yamla|talk]]) 01:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
== Does "Camp" count as beginning with "C"? ==
* {{On AFD|Grove Avenue, London}} &rarr; [[Hanwell Park]]
* {{On AFD|Avra, Pima County, Arizona}} &rarr; [[Tucson Mountain Park]]/[[Camp Pima]]
It's happening again, Doktoro.
Do you know any Arizonianians?
<p>
On balance, I think that this is brought to us by the letter "P".
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 16:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

== Administrators' newsletter – December 2023 ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter|News and updates for administrators]] from the past month (November 2023).

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[[File:Wikipedia Administrator.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Administrator changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-add.svg|20px|alt=added|Added]] {{Hlist|class=inline
|[[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ganesha811|Ganesha811]]
|[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/JPxG|JPxG]]
}}
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{Hlist|class=inline
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1184346579#Desysop request (Ajpolino)|Ajpolino]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1183114562#Requesting removal of my tools (Lourdes)|Lourdes]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1182884772#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#November 2023|Mairi]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1182884772#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#November 2023|RockMFR]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1182884772#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#November 2023|Somno]]
|[[Special:PermanentLink/1182884772#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2023#November 2023|WilyD]]
}}
:[[File:Pictogram voting rename.png|20px|alt=renamed|Renamed]] {{noping|Beeblebrox}} → {{noping|Just Step Sideways}}

</div>
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[[File:Oversight logo.png|20px|alt=]] '''Oversight changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{Hlist|class=inline
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[[File:Green check.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Guideline and policy news'''
* Following a [[Special:Permalink/1183144832#Are admins required to have notifications enabled?|talk page discussion]], the [[WP:ADMINACCT|Administrators' accountability policy]] has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have [[help:Notifications|notifications]] (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.

[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Arbitration'''
* Following [[Special:PermanentLink/1184642656#Arbitration motion regarding the extended confirmed restriction|a motion]], the [[WP:ECR|Extended Confirmed Restriction]] has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
* The Arbitration Committee has [[Special:PermanentLink/1184772491#Call for Checkusers and Oversighters|announced]] a call for Checkusers and Oversighters, stating that it will currently be accepting applications for CheckUser and/or Oversight permissions at any point in the year.
* [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023#Election timeline|Eligible users]] are invited to '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/806|vote on candidates]]''' for the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee]] until ''23:59 December 11, 2023 (UTC)''.  Candidate statements can be seen [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023/Candidates|here]].

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== Beavers ==
[[File:1910 map of Montgomery, Alabama.jpeg|thumb|right|Things were very different back in the days before techno music, Doktoro.  They let country clubs be next door to meth houses, for one thing.<p>But would the country club members have tolerated the "L" looping around their clubhouse?<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 04:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)]]
I just saw someone cite an Arcadia Publishing book, Doktoro.
<p>
Anyway, whilst I am getting over the shock of that, you should fill out a form, include a self-addressed return envelope, and send off by air-mail to those people in the University of Alabarmy.
I hear that they have a dirty postcard collection.
<p>
https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32227
<p>
The rest of us have to make do with TikTok.
<p>
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/538109855450680648/
<p>
Apparently the University of Georgie has a book that can help one go clubbing, too.
Important to go clubbing to maintain that youth cred, Doktoro.
Don't say that I never help you with the youth cred.
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 03:12, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{cite book|title=Official Guide to the City of Montgomery, Alabama|year=1948|author=Tintagil Club|location=Montgomery, Alabama|chapter=Standard Country Club|page=103|oclc=3460793|ol=2240079A}}
* {{cite book|title=Official Guide to the City of Montgomery, Alabama|year=1948|author=Tintagil Club|location=Montgomery, Alabama|chapter=Country and Beauvoir Club|page=102|oclc=3460793|ol=2240079A}}
* {{cite book|title=Official Guide to the City of Montgomery, Alabama|year=1948|author=Tintagil Club|location=Montgomery, Alabama|chapter=Woodley Country Club|page=104|oclc=3460793|ol=2240079A}}
**Ha, I cited three of them. I own one of those books; my house is in it. ;) The last one is confusing; it has different dates: 1904 for construction, 1926 for the burning, and it puts the old clubhouse on Mulberry rather than on Carter Hill Road. So I assume it was on the corner, where now the oil place and the Sonic are. I wouldn't be bothered by it but I have more faith in Mary Ann Neeley than in the other authors--fun fact, we live in the house formerly owned by Neeley's daughter (and by [[Wayne Greenhaw]]). The club, old and new, is around the corner from where I live, Uncle: you should come by next time. Liam was doing his homework while I was writing this up and he kind of lit up when he realized how many things, historical and otherwise, were coming together right here--and Clifford L.(anier) was a member of the Beauvoir Club also. I'm working on a biography of Clifford; keeps me off the street. And I just submitted a proposal to a conference, where basically I'll read my Wikipedia draft, haha, but with more jokes. As for the [https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32227 link], I don't know if a picture was supposed to show up there; I know there's a couple of them in the Alabama Archives, but I was planning on going to Hoole Special Collections anyway. Apparently they have a stained glass window with Robert E. Lee in a King Arthur pose! You should come with me. I'll buy you lunch at that cheap Mexican place, if it's still standing. I barely recognize my old campus anymore. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:21, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
***I can only surmise that the Alabarmy people don't let the Internet see their dirty postcard collection so that they can charge people for parking.  Some of them are from a "Mary", too. I expect that it's one of those pseudonyms used on dodgy dirty WWW sites.<p>https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32277  https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/28297 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/33485 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/33478 https://archives.lib.ua.edu/repositories/3/archival_objects/32234<p>This King Arthur: Does xe have a YouTube channel?<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 03:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
****TikTok, Uncle. Ping me when you get here; I'll take you to Hamburger King. Cash only! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:09, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
***I think that your Mary has read some old 1960s book of dirty pictures, Doktoro.<p>https://archive.org/details/montgpics1963pion/page/130/mode/2up<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 04:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Doktoro, '''did you know &hellip;'''
* &hellip; that [[Patty Berg]] once went clubbing for a Western?{{sfn|Kenny|2019|p=138}}
* &hellip; that '''[[Rod Nachman|Merton Roland "Rod" Nachman Jr]]'''{{sfn|Ellington|2015}}{{sfn|Marks|Granger|2003}}{{sfn|Barbas|2023|pp=66&ndash;68}}{{sfn|AP|2015}} the lawyer for the plaintiff in ''[[New York Times Co. v. Sullivan]]'' was not invited to go clubbing because he was a Jew?{{sfn|Barbas|2023|p=67}} Or that he loved Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin and was associated with a bar?{{sfn|AP|2015}}
* &hellip; that the bar didn't let [[S.S. Seay|Solomon Seay]]'s nine-year-old daughter Ettra{{sfn|Seay|2017|p=283}} get on the bus to go clubbing in a {{USD|40|year=1967}} dress?{{sfn|Seay|2017|pp=285&ndash;287}}
* &hellip; that [[Frank Minis Johnson]] very seldomly went clubbing, and his wife Ruth didn't even know the rules?{{sfn|Bass|2002|p=130}}
Of course you might only believe some of this if you trust Sam, a professor of Buffaloes.
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 05:31, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
{{reflist|15em}}
* {{cite book|title=Patty Berg: Pioneer Champion of Women's Golf|author1-first=Kevin|author1-last=Kenny|publisher=McFarland|year=2019|isbn=9781476637181|chapter=The LPGA Tour Without Babe}}
* {{cite newspaper|title=Nachman won before he lost at Supreme Court|author1-first=Coke|author1-last=Ellington|newspaper=Montgomery Advertiser|url=https://eu.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/opinion/columnists/2015/12/08/nachman-won-before-he-lost-supreme-court/76972808/|date=2015-12-08}}
* {{cite newspaper|ref={{harvid|AP|2015}}|title=Alabama attorney in landmark libel case dead at 91|author1=Associated Press|newspaper=Montgomery Advertiser|url=https://eu.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/2015/11/26/alabama-attorney-landmark-libel-case-dies-age-91/76433444/|date=2015-11-26}}
* {{cite web|publisher=United States District Court Middle District of Alabama|author1-first=Emily C.|author1-last=Marks|author2-first=Trey|author2-last=Granger|url=https://www.almd.uscourts.gov/oral-histories-profiles/m-roland-nachman-jr|title=M. Roland Nachman, Jr.|date=2003-11-05|work=Oral Histories Profiles}}
* {{cite book|title=Actual Malice: Civil Rights and Freedom of the Press in ''New York Times V. Sullivan''|author1-first=Samantha|author1-last=Barbas|publisher=University of California Press|year=2023|isbn=9780520385825}}
* {{cite book|title=Voices of Civil Rights Lawyers: Reflections from the Deep South, 1964&ndash;1980|editor1-first=Kent|editor1-last=Spriggs|publisher=University Press of Florida|year=2017|isbn=9780813059693|author1-first=Solomon|author1-last=Seay|author1-link=S.S. Seay|chapter=Solomon Seay Seeks Public Accommodation}}
* {{cite book|chapter=Early Years in Montgomery|title=Taming the Storm: The Life and Times of Judge Frank M. Johnson, Jr., and the South's Fight Over Civil Rights|author1-first=Jack|author1-last=Bass|author1-link=Jack Bass|publisher=University of Georgia Press|year=2002|isbn=9780820325316}}
=== Buffaloes ===
On no, Doktoro!  What is [[User:Drmies/Rod Nachman]] all about?  Are we supposed to be believing this Buffalo stuff?  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 08:04, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

And [[User:Uncle G/Missing encyclopaedic articles|now we know]] that we didn't even know about ''[[Newman v. Alabama]]'' and ''[[Pugh v. Locke]]'' (all one big subject) which were big news in Alabarmy some years ago. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 14:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
=== Bowls ===
* {{On AFD|Montgomery Bowl}}
Now all of the people going clubbing are going bowling, Doktoro.
<p>
The re-listing of {{On AFD|Squat dance}} has also reminded me that I needed to ask you who this Sandra person was that you were going on about, and how that's relevant to all of the squat dance videos on TikTok.
Youth cred, Doktoro!
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 08:19, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
<p>
TikTokers such as #ErikaHaber and #LesleyMilne and #KarenRyan think that this stuff is "epic".
But is it ''really''?
<nowiki>#</nowiki>KarenRyan even talks about an "epic cycle", which is strange because there are no bicycles in the squat dance videos.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 08:32, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
*I will say that I have great respect for those squat dancers. The leg exercises in my morning routine are always the hardest for me. No wonder that the poor guy in ''[[A Shot in the Dark (1964 film)|A Shot in the Dark]]'' needed all that vodka. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
**Vodka doesn't explain the TikTokers and your Sandra.  &#9786; [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 03:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
***Are you talking about the girl I was in love with in my first year of high school? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
****I don't know, Doktoro.  None of #ErikaHaber and #LesleyMilne and #KarenRyan cover your Sandra's love life.  Although since Sandra liked Joe, I'm not sure that you would have stood much of a chance.  Joe would no doubt have made "arrangements" for a romantic rival, so you probably dodged a bullet there.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 04:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Having now used the geologist, I can now improve upon the aforegiven:
*'''Did you know''' that the Bowling off [[Balls Fork|Balls]] had no Balls and the Bowlings were on Balls and Buck?<sup>({{harvnb|Hodge|1918|pp=90&ndash;91,94}} {{harvnb|Rennick|2000b|p=20}})</sup>
This episode of [[User talk:Drmies]] is brought to you by the letter "b", Doktoro.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 09:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

=== Combs ===
I have found something beginning with "C", Doktoro!
Unfortunately, it is "cryptic crossword clue".
* '''Did you know''' &hellip; that '''[[North Fork tributaries at Hazard, Kentucky|Lennut]]''' is "tunnel" spelled backwards?
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 23:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
== Someone you blocked ==

Hi, Drmies - I'm writing to advise you that VRT received information confirming the ID for a user [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MickTerrill&diff=prev&oldid=1188518825 you blocked.] See Ticket#2023120510011609. He has requested to be unblocked. I explained WP:COI and for him to please be patient as these things take time. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:21, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
*{{U|Atsme}}, OK, thanks--but the block was a simple username block. They need to request a new user name, but I don't know how that paperwork goes. I didn't talk about a COI though it's obvious, but as far as I'm concerned he can be unblocked as soon as he gets a new name. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
**Thanks, Drmies but the user wants to register under his real name which is the name you blocked. That is his real name - he is that person. VRTS has a valid ID to confirm. Am I overlooking something? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
***Hi Atsme--no, not at all: I blocked for the username. I didn't block for a COI because that COI was obvious, so I don't think anyone needs my approval to go ahead and unblock, if conditions are met. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:04, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

==MelroseReporter==
Hi, Drmies! I'm confused as to what's going on with [[Special:Contributions/MelroseReporter| this user]]. Apparently they were [[Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#MelroseReporter_unblocked|unblocked by the arbitration committee]], but I can't find the discussion anywhere.  [[Shungite]] is on my watchlist (as are many articles with pseudoscience arguments).  Additionally, they are making a complete [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shungite&diff=next&oldid=1189062519 mess] of the talk page. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 14:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
::FYI - a few minutes ago, another user issued [[User_talk:MelroseReporter|MelroseReporter a "final and only" warning]] over edits to [[Shungite]]. [[User:Glane23|Geoff]] &#124; <sup> [[User talk:Glane23#top|Who, me?]]</sup> 14:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
:::See [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#MelroseReporter unblocked]].That happened around 18 hours ago. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 21:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Yeah, kind of a mess, huh. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

== About your warning to me ==

As you've said that I have to stop wasting my time reverting and warning an LTA, I'll definitely stop for now, since I might be blocked temporarily for "disruptive editing". I'll probably email you some further details. – [[User:64andtim|<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#0024FF;">'''''64andtim'''''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:64andtim|<span style="color:#0F2298">talk</span>]])</sup> 18:26, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
*It wasn't a warning, and you wouldn't be blocked. But giving them low-level warnings is kind of senseless; reporting them to AIV immediately is the right course of action. And reverting--ah well, they get off on that. When I see them make such an edit, I block first and revert later. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
**Me, I block first and then reblock later. Sometimes, if I want to make it more solid, I block a third time based on the principle that the more times one does it the more people believe it's deserved. Like strong opposes. Ever seen a strongest oppose? Looks and acts a bit like a bull elk.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 23:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
***Meh. We only get half pay for reblocks, a measure I strongly opposed. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:11, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

== English Professor Vacuum ==
It turns out, Doktoro, that a {{On AFD|cow belt|Cow belt}} is not something from The Far Side.
Did you know this?
<p>
I thought that with that and the {{On RFD|Judas phone|2023 October 26}} we might avoid the English professors.
But via {{On AFD|Cognitive approaches to grammar}}, Cristiano Broccias, {{plainlink|https://lingue.unige.it/cristiano.broccias@unige.it|an Italian professor who teaches English}}, has snuck in.
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:15, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
*Did you know that yesterday I was looking through the horse collar articles? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:21, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
**No, Doktoro; but this does explain a lot.  &#9786;<p>Did you know that there's a connection between [[User:Drmies/Gwerz an Aotrou Nann]] and [[Clerk Colvill]]?<p> [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 17:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I have just cited {{plainlink|https://hss.iitd.ac.in/faculty/vibha-arora|a sociology professor}}, Doktoro to help the [[Hindi Belt]] become clear.  I apologize. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 11:28, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
<p>
Oh no! I just cited {{plainlink|https://www.uva.nl/profiel/g/o/j.goggin/j.goggin.html|a professor who is in a "Capaciteitsgroep Engelse"}}.  That's Gallifreyan for something.  I dare not translate it.  Let us hope that we do not have to write about [[Bubble Plays]]. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 12:11, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
<p>
Doktoro, I have just done a search for "stalin dance troupe chicken feast" and ''I blame you''.
Bringing in the Russian professors when you could be writing about proper Gallifreyan subjects like the [[Bubble Plays]].
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 18:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
<p>
And now I have a professor of communication studies, Doktoro, and a way to rescue the [[Hip-hop magazine]]s ([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hip-hop magazines|AFD discussion]]) article from deletion, ''15 years too late'', thanks to having to research my rationale for {{On AFD|Word Up! (magazine)}}.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 16:48, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

=== up the Creeks without an English professor ===
I am learning so many things about [[Kentucky|Eastern Fried Chicklenland]] with just geologists and a ''sociology'' professor, Doktoro.
Sociology!
*'''Did you know''' that '''[[Lost Creek (Kentucky)|Dice]]''' may have been Dicey and close to '''[[Lost Creek (Kentucky)|Lost]]''', and came and went, but still exists today?<sup>{{harv|Rennick|2000a|p=6}}</sup>
*'''Did you know''' that whilst lots of things are Troublesome at '''[[Troublesome Creek (North Fork Kentucky River tributary)|Troublesome Creek]]''', one of them was intended to be Boggs?<sup>{{harv|Rennick|2000a|p=5}}</sup>
*'''Did you know''' that a Couch wanted [[Agawam, Massachusetts|Agawam]] or Wigwam but said '''[[Big Creek (Perry, Kentucky)|Avawam]]''' by mistake, and it was moved around by some Fields?<sup>{{harv|Rennick|2000a|p=16}}</sup>
*'''Did you know''' that '''[[Lotts Creek (Perry, Kentucky)|Darfork]]''' is confusing given the Dark Fork of the '''[[Trace Fork]]''' where "Danger Nick" owned land?<sup>{{harv|Rennick|2000a|pp=17,19,20}}</sup>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 12:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what [[The Forks of Troublesome|Possum Trot]] is, Doktoro, and the sociology professor was singularly unhelpful about the matter.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:14, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

If only {{flickr|postoffices/9190176116|this image}} and {{flickr|postoffices/9187377981|this image}} and {{flickr|auvet/5416348908|this image}} were free content, Doktoro!
I could have used an image halfway down the page, to show what those Rowdy people from [[Kentucky|Eastern Fried Chicklenland]] were truly like.
Commons is remarkably bereft of pictures of anything on these creeks.
You couldn't just pop over to Troublesome and take some quick free content photographs, could you?
It's closer to [[#Beavers|that Beaver club]] than the Gold Coast is to Sydney.
You could practically walk there.
Certainly, Google Maps supplies a walking route.
&#9786;
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 02:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
*Yes, if only--but that's a bit of a drive for me. [[Murder Creek (Alabama)]] is a bit closer, and there's a distillery, supposedly. I'll check it out in the spring. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:31, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
**Take a copy of {{harvnb|Nooe|2023|pp=58&ndash;60}} with you to read on the bus, Doktoro.  And {{harvnb|Foscue|1989|p=99}}.  They're by one of those university presses.  You can even source the co&ouml;rdinates from the latter, and write us a better article.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 18:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
***{{cite book|title=Aggression and Sufferings: Settler Violence, Native Resistance, and the Coalescence of the Old South|author1-first=F. Evan|author1-last=Nooe|publisher=University of Alabama Press|year=2023|isbn=9780817361136|chapter=Baptized in the Blood}}
***{{cite encyclopaedia|encyclopaedia=Place Names in Alabama|author1-first=Virginia O.|author1-last=Foscue|publisher=University of Alabama Press|year=1989|isbn=9780817304102|title=Murder Creek}}
****[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]], I can't even see a table of contents for the Noee book. Our library doesn't have it, and neither does Big Auburn. It'll have to wait, I'm afraid. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
*****They want to keep it secret from you, Doktoro.  Maybe it will be available when you go on your trip to Castleberry in the spring, which Google Maps tells me has a Dollar General store that you can visit after seeing the Creek.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 21:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I have been learning yet more from the sociology professor.
*'''Did you know''' that none of the suggested Balls at [[Balls Fork|Balls]] were allowed to be Balls?<sup>{{harv|Rennick|2000b|p=20}}</sup>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 21:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

It is very daunting to expand the [[Kentucky Geological Survey]] article, Doktoro.
I knew that the sociology professor had well over three hundred books, but it turns out that the geologists give him a run for their money, and have ''at least'' 91 books of their own.
There's a picture of them in the new source for the article, that would be an excellent addition to the article were it out of copyright.
[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Kentucky/GNIS cleanup]] might outlive us all.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 10:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
=== an English American Professor and an American English Professor ===
* {{On AFD|Noble outlaw}}
I found some more professors, Doktoro.
Thomas Ruys Smith is an American professor who is English, at UAE.
Peter Larsen Thorslev was an English professor who was American, at UCLA.
<p>
You can help to save Byron, Doktoro!
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 11:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
<p>
The Lurkers might be amused at Doktoro basing the article rewrite off the text of the AFD discussion.
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 05:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

== Something wrong here? ==

To my feeling the article [[CHON]] is by cut-and-paste moved to [[CHNOPS]]. I think the move is correct, but the method certainly not, as the history is left behind. Does did need action? <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 21:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CHNOPS&diff=prev&oldid=1189010342 This] is not correct, no. [[User:MikeSadler11]], please do not make such edits. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
*Sheesh what a mess. Apparently MikeSadler had a bunch of edits in a sandbox, added that to CHNOPS, and then simply redirected CHON without a by-your-leave. {{U|MadeOfAtoms}} correctly restored CHON, and maybe CHON should be merged into CHNOPS--but someone is going to have to fix the actual article. I'm going to move CHON to CHNOPs, but it'll be the CHON version that's current--and if MikeSadler wants to restore their own edits, they'll have to do that: I'm not leaving their version in place. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:18, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

You lot and your rainbow disco balls.
I'm going to wait until the full initialism gets settled.
I'm sure that there's going to be a "++" at the end eventually.  &#9786;
In the meantime, [[Talk:Bracket]] is calling you, Doktoro, as you were the one that didn't like the table.
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 05:11, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

==Merry Christmas!==
{| style="border:1px solid 3px; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}}; padding: 5px;"
|rowspan="2" valign="center" | [[Image:Happy Christmas and New Year.jpg|190px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: center; height: 1.1em;" | '''A very happy Christmas and New Year to you!'''
|rowspan="2" valign="centre" padding: 5px;" | [[File:Scrooges third visitor-John Leech,1843.jpg|180px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|-
|style="vertical-align:top; border-top:1px solid gray"|
<br />

<big>Have a great Christmas, and may 2024 bring you joy, happiness – and no trolls, vandals or visits from [[Krampus]]!</big>
<br />
<br />
<big>Cheers</big>
<br />
<br />
<big>[[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 09:28, 18 December 2023 (UTC)</big>
|}

== Not gonna object to prod but... ==

"It's a pond"? Really? That pond is non-notable but some others sure are.

Also, just out of curiosity, may I ask why you've indef-ECPed your own talk page?

Happy holidays!

With cheerful irreverence, [[User:RadioactiveBoulevardier|RadioactiveBoulevardier]] ([[User talk:RadioactiveBoulevardier|talk]]) 11:28, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

== That mail thing again ==

Am not a fan of the template, so here's a handwritten version. Hope your week is going well. -- [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]] ([[User talk:Euryalus|talk]]) 10:11, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
*I saw your email; I'll read it after class. I'm teaching [[Epic of Sundiata|Sunjata]] and am looking for Tassey Condé: the version of the epic in my "new" Norton is totally different from the one I've taught before. I did grade two dozen drafts yesterday, BTW, but we have another few classes to do. Ugh gotta write the final exams too. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:09, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
**Thanks for the reply. You lead an interesting life. I'll read up on Sundiata after my current assignment. Give me a seventeenth century ship design or the history of Captain Cook's goat (or I guess the whereabouts of the helmet of Messapus) and I'll bore everyone to tears over many hours of detail. Ask me about actual literature and I'm a disappointingly blank slate. -- [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]] ([[User talk:Euryalus|talk]])
***{{tps}} Captain Cook's goat? I'm all ears. (But not for many hours.) [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 12:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
****Ha! Okay, the short version:
*****Among the many things [[Samuel Wallis]] took with him when he circumnavigated the world was a goat. Goats were semi-common on eighteenth century navy ships as they gave milk and ate any old rubbish, and you could eat them if the rations ran out. After two arduous years at sea Wallis arrived back in England in mid-1768 and let his goat go free at Portsmouth Dockyard. It was the first goat ever to circumnavigate the world.
*****By chance [[Captain Cook]] was just then departing for his own multi-year circumnavigation of the world in search of Australia, and seeing Wallis' stray goat about the place, just kidnapped it and took it with him. As times got tough during the voyage, Cook and his crew ate every other animal on board. They were attacked by Maoris in New Zealand, shipwrecked on the Barrier Reef, struck by lightning in Indonesia, and crippled by malaria on the way home. By the time they returned to England most people had long since considered them dead. But home they came, bringing with them news, curios and Wallis' goat which was (and probably still is) the only goat to circumnavigate the world ''twice''.
*****Cook then immediately left on his second voyage. His crew were paid out and forgotten, his ship became a timber hauler and was eventually sunk as a breakwater. And the goat? It was voted the thanks of Parliament (yes seriously) and taken home by Cook's wife where by all reports it grazed contentedly in the garden and was the subject of occasional local tourism. Its ultimate fate is not recorded, but I suspect it eventually became a stew. Wherever it went, it is without doubt the world's premier goat explorer.
****And yes, the above sounds like fiction but there are numerous reliable sources for all of it. Also a thriving cottage industry in children's books about Captain Cook's goat (see google for examples). It was always on my to do list for a Wikipedia article, but I never found the time. Anyway, there's the story. Hope you're glad you asked. -- [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]] ([[User talk:Euryalus|talk]]) 13:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
*****Ha, I'm glad Softlavender asked. Thanks! That's awesome. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:12, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
*****That is a very cool story! Also, very funny that the goat is a celeb in the world of children's books. Maybe he will get a movie someday, à la ''Master and Commander''. Can animals get knighted? I'm surprised this goat wasn't knighted, or made an officer of the Admiralty. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 20:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
*** As we all know, once started it is difficult to stop Doktoro from going on about K-Pop and suchlike.  Just witness the section below this one!  Gwerz, short shrift; professor of techno music, a whole external linkfarm.  &#9786;<p>If you like history, though, you could do worse than sort out [[Draft:Battle of Jassar Bridge (1965)]], which is ancient history from 1965, which Doktoro should keep at arms length for the sake of youth cred.  If it pre-dates [[Jada Facer]]'s first YouTube video, Doktoro doesn't want to know.  Reading the sources, until I was dizzy from too many sentences that included more numbers than words, with the 115th advancing on the 3rd with II Corinthians, it certainly appears that this isn't quite what this is called in the history books.<p>I think that a little brown box is in order, at this point, as well.<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 19:13, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
=== Bleats ===
{{divbox|brown||
<!--START-->
[[The Well-Travelled Goat]] was a [[goat]] that accompanied both [[James Cook]] on the ''Endeavour'' on the [[first voyage of James Cook]], and [[Samuel Wallis]] on the ''Dolphin'', around the world.{{sfn|McLynn|2011|p=114}}{{sfn|CEJ|1874|p=47}}

It was amongst several other animals on the ''Endeavour'' loaded as livestock.{{sfn|McLynn|2011|p=114}}
Sheep, pigs, goats, and chickens were on board to provide meat, eggs, and milk.{{sfn|Hamilton|2020|p=56}}

It was not the only traveller with Cook to have previously travelled on the ''Dolphin'', which also included the ship's master Robert Molyneuax, ship's [[master's mate]]s Charles Clerke, Richard Pickersgill, and Francis Wilkinson, and the lieutenant [[John Gore (Royal Navy officer, died 1790)|John Gore]].{{sfn|Musgrave|2020|p=57}}

It had a Latin poem, a [[distich]], written for it by [[Samuel Johnson]] at the request of [[Joseph Banks]], which Banks had engraved upon the goat's collar:{{sfn|McLynn|2011|pp=216&ndash;217}}{{sfn|Musgrave|2020|p=153}}
{{blockquote|
<poem>
Perpetui, ambita bis terra, premia lactis
Haec habet, altrici Capra secunda Jovis.
</poem>
|Samuel Johnson{{sfn|McLynn|2011|pp=216&ndash;217}}}}
Translated to English this reads "The globe twice circled, this the Goat, the second to the nurse of Jove, is thus rewarded for her never-failing milk."{{sfn|Beaglehole|1992|p=291}}

Johnson's biographer gave a somewhat lengthier and looser translation, attributed to "a friend":{{sfn|Musgrave|2020|p=153}}{{sfn|Boswell|1831|p=136}}
{{blockquote|
<poem>
In fame scarce second to the nurse of Jove,
This Goat, who twice the world had traversed round,
Deserving both her master’s care and love,
Ease and perpetual pasture now has found.
</poem>
|[[James Boswell]], ''The Life of Samuel Johnson''{{sfn|Stones|2022|p=392}}{{sfn|Boswell|1831|p=136}}}}

[[John Wilson Croker]] noted in a critical edition of Boswell's biography that "[n]either the original nor the translation will add much to the poetical fame of Mr. Boswell's friends.  The Latin seems particularly stiff and poor."{{sfn|Boswell|1831|p=136}}

[[Oskar Spate]] observed that the goat's fate was more fortunate than that of [[Amalthea (mythology)|Amalthea]], the aforementioned "nurse of Jove".{{sfn|Spate|1988|p=347}}
The goat was much celebrated by newspapers such as the ''General Evening Post'' upon the return of the ''Endeavour'', whose correspondent for the voyage claimed that "[s]he never went dry during the whole of the voyage" and asserted that "we mean to reward her services by placing her in a good English pasture for the rest of her life".{{sfn|Moore|2018|p=355}}{{sfn|Mackay|1949|p=17}}
It lived out the rest of its life as a "pensioner" at [[Greenwich Hospital, London|Greenwich Hospital]] and died at [[Mile End]] on 1772-04-28.{{sfn|CEJ|1874|p=47}}{{sfn|McLynn|2011|pp=216&ndash;217}}

In 2006 [[Jackie French]] wrote a [[non-fiction novel|fictionalized account]] of the voyage for children, based upon the real events, that was partly narrated from the view of the goat, entitled ''The Goat who Sailed the World''.{{sfn|ANMM|2012}}{{sfn|Blandford|2010}}

==== References ====
{{reflist|15em}}
===== Sources =====
{{refbegin}}
* {{cite book|author1-link=Frank McLynn|author1-first=Frank|author1-last=McLynn|title=Captain Cook: Master of the Seas|publisher=Yale University Press|year=2011|isbn=9780300172201}}
* {{cite book|title=The Multifarious Mr. Banks|author1-first=Toby|author1-last=Musgrave|publisher=Yale University Press|year=2020|isbn=9780300223835}}
* {{cite book|title=The Life of Captain James Cook|author1-first=John C.|author1-last=Beaglehole|author1-link=John Beaglehole|publisher=Stanford University Press|year=1992|isbn=9780804720090|chapter=England 1771&ndash;1772}}
* {{cite magazine|ref={{harvid|CEJ|1874}}|magazine=Chambers's Edinburgh Journal|publisher=William & Robert Chambers|date=1874-01-17|title=Leaves from an Old Diary|issue=525|pages=46&ndash;48|location=Edinburgh}}
* {{cite book|title=Captain James Cook and the Search for Antarctica|author1-first=James C.|author1-last=Hamilton|publisher=Pen and Sword History|year=2020|isbn=9781526753601}}
* {{cite book|title=The life of Samuel Johnson|volume=2|author1-first=James|author1-last=Boswell|author1-link=James Boswell|editor1-first=John Wilson|editor1-last=Croker|editor1-link=John Wilson Croker|year=1831|publisher=John Murray|location=London}}
* {{cite book|title=Parodies of the Romantic Age|author1-first=Graeme|author1-last=Stones|publisher=Taylor & Francis|year=2022|isbn=9781000743920}}
* {{cite book|title=Paradise Found and Lost|series=Pacific Since Magellan|volume=3|author1-first=Oskar Hermann Khristian|author1-last=Spate|author1-link=Oskar Spate|publisher=Australian National University Press|year=1988|isbn=9780080344003}}
* {{cite book|title=Historic Poverty Bay and the East Coast, N.I., N.Z.|author1-first=Joseph Angus|author1-last=Mackay|author1-link=Joseph Angus Mackay|location=Gisborne|year=1949|chapter=Cook's historic landfall at Poverty Bay|chapter-url=https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-MacHist-t1-body-d3.html}}
* {{cite book|title=Endeavour|author1-first=Peter|author1-last=Moore|publisher=Random House|year=2018|isbn=9781473545359}}
* {{cite web|ref={{harvid|ANMM|2012}}|title=HMB ''Endeavour'' teacher resources|publisher=Australian National Maritime Museum|year=2012|url=https://www.sea.museum/-/media/anmm/files/learn/teacherresources/literature_goat_combined.pdf}}
* {{cite web|title=Review: ''The Goat Who Sailed The World''|url=http://www.kids-bookreview.com/2010/04/review-goat-who-sailed-world.html|author1-first=Megan|author1-last=Blandford|date=2010-04-09}}
{{refend}}
==== Further reading ====
{{refbegin}}
* {{cite web|title=The Well-Travelled Goat|date=2019-04-11|publisher=British Library|work=Untold Lives|author1-first=Huw|author1-last=Rowlands|url=https://blogs.bl.uk/untoldlives/2019/04/the-well-travelled-goat.html}}
{{refend}}
[[:Category:Goats]]
<!--STOP-->
{{hr}}
:''This goat-based article is a substub at [[User talk:Drmies|Articles for creation]].  You can help Doktoro with xyr quest for youth cred with pop culture subjects like this!''
}}
[[File:Maple brown sugar five spice bacon jerky.jpg|thumb|right|Doktoro, does [[The Well-Travelled Goat]] count as a bacon article if it only mentions pigs? [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 11:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)]]
As you will see, [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]], Doktoro doesn't do poems, especially ones by [[Doctor Who#Charity episodes|other Doctors]], and ''especially'' ones covered in YUPpie kids books and pop magazines.
<p>
One is even a Doctor of history.
From Iowa.
Who gets puffed up by some Aussie &mdash; not Tegan! &mdash; at {{jstor|27011540}}.
The effrontery of it!
No article for xem!
<p>
Even the professor of history going around saying "SUP!" is a bit crass.
<p>
The [[Bubble Plays]] up at [[#English Professor Vacuum]] are literature, too.
Don't ask Doktoro, though.
[[Dutch language|Gallifreyan]]?
"Never heard of it!"
Too busy [[#Bowls|#bowling]] and [[#Beavers|#clubbing]] with TikTokers.
<p>
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 06:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
*Holy shit Uncle, you've outdone yourself. Bravo. I wish I had time to read all the stuff in the world. FYI today my totem animal is the capybara. And I DO do poems (and [[User:Gogo Dodo|dodos]], but not really [[De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da|dada]]): in fact, I'm having a poet over for coffee today. A living poet, even. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
**If you were enjoying the society of dead poets, Doktoro, there would be cause for concern.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 01:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Neither the professor of techno music nor the Goat have travelled very far, yet. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 18:05, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
<p>
"Byronic" begins with "B", of course. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 11:48, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
<p>
Whilst neither of us might get those nifty Christmas cards with the concrete mixer pictures on the front this year, you are obviously saving up the [[The Well-Travelled Goat|Still Red-Linked Goat]] as a present for [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] and [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]], I see. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 16:07, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*Hmm not really, Uncle, and I'll have you know I actually got a Christmas card--but no concrete mixer, just two dogs and a baby. I did watch something on TV about [[Lafarge (company)]] and their payments to the rapists and murderers of ISIS, to protect their concrete interests concretely. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:23, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*I actually thought about sending physical Christmas cards this year, but I never made it past the "wondering where to get some decent ones" phase -- there's not many options here and buying the cards on Amazon and then sending them would take too long. So that was a wash. I usually get a physical card from my longtime  pentecostal friend, but that's about it. E-cards are so tacky. I often send a semi-mass Christmas email with something beautiful or fun in it, but last year I didn't. The fabric of society is wearing thin. Isn't Madame Lafarge from ''A Tale of Two Cities''? [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 02:04, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
**You must be much younger than me, haha, I love sending Christmas cards, or used to. I/we gave up on sending (physical) Christmas cards a few years ago--a matter of return on investment. That's how I culled my Facebook friends also: you don't like my posts? I won't have you anymore. These days we get Christmas cards only from odd people from many years and houses ago, and an occasional odd new friend, which I really appreciated. I would not want to send emails. Lafarge--if you'd watched Fareed Zakaria's show today, you'd have been touched. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
***Nah Doc, I'm much older than you but I'm an introvert -- or as some would have it, an anti-social misanthrope. It's fun to get Christmas cards from (or send them to) new friends, but for the old guard the thrill has generally faded. Sometimes I like to retain contact with people like old landlords (property managers) and such in case I need a referral e.g. whenever I need to move, and Xmas is a good excuse. (Is this like sending concrete-mixer cards/calendars?) But the flesh is weak and I failed once again. I don't have a TV so I don't think I've ever watched an episode of Fareed's show. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 03:55, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
**** You will have to ask the people in that department of the slightly mud-coloured university whether they are landlords, as well, and will send a card to you.  Doktoro does not do physical cards because of youth cred, of course, so departmental cards are just more fodder for the recycling bin anyway.<p>The youth of today does not do poems, as you can see above, or physical Christmas cards, or e-mail which is &mdash; like &mdash; from the 1990s man.  Like your [[The Well-Travelled Goat|Still Red-Linked Goat]], if it is not on TikTok it gets short shrift.  Your [[The Well-Travelled Goat|Still Red-Linked Goat]] is simply generating carbon emissions with all of that world travelling.<p>{{On AFD|Edgar Allan Poe and music}} is probably on TikTok.  I suspect that much of the pop music was, given how hard it seems to be to source even the albums outwith TikTok.  (I tried, and failed.)  Although TikTok doesn't do album length.  Do not tell Doktoro that SpongeBob SquarePants is on [[The Tell-Tale Heart#Adaptations]] or xe will get overexcited, only to end up disappointed that it doesn't have a source.<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 05:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

== Seasons Greetings!==

<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#00A86B; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);;" class="plainlinks">[[File:Santa with musical instruments.jpg|left|130px]][[File:Papá Noel gatuno 2011 (cropped).JPG|240px|right]]{{Center|[[File:Happy Holidays text.png|301px]]}}
{{white|{{big|'''''Hello there, thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2024! ♦ [[User talk:Dr. Blofeld|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#aba67e">''Dr. Blofeld''</span>]] 09:47, 21 December 2023 (UTC)}}}}
{{paragraph break}}
</div>

== Thanks ==

Thank you for snowballing my AfD. [[User:Greg L|Greg L]] ([[User talk:Greg L|talk]]) 23:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)